Swing Plane and upright position at contact

[FiveFrameSwing]

Thanks, I think the "lead shoulder jutting up" will be a magic cue for my daughter. Right now her lead shoulder slides forward when trying to turn the barrel.

It comes down to 'how' the body is used to work the barrel.

The "lead shoulder jutting up" is a 'result' of the 'lateral tilt' that occurs as the lower body (upper rear leg and lower torso) twists forward while the shoulder line resists that rotation. It is the shoulders resistance to that action that leads to the "lead shoulder jutting up".

 

[_MIA_]

It comes down to 'how' the body is used to work the barrel.

The "lead shoulder jutting up" is a 'result' of the 'lateral tilt' that occurs as the lower body (upper rear leg and lower torso) twists forward while the shoulder line resists that rotation. It is the shoulders resistance to that action that leads to the "lead shoulder jutting up".

So this resisting action creates a moment about a point located somewhere close to the centerline of the body, in a direction which is into the screen, which results in the tilt?

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

So this resisting action creates a moment about a point located somewhere close to the centerline of the body, in a direction which is into the screen, which results in the tilt?

I don't view it that way.

 

[_MIA_]

I don't view it that way.

There has to be some force or moment which tilts the shoulder plane..not that it matters in terms of executing the swing as the moment or force would be developed through body anatomy but
I was just curious as to what you think is the physical mechanism for the shoulder tilt being initiated by the resistance.

 

[julray]

It comes down to 'how' the body is used to work the barrel.

The "lead shoulder jutting up" is a 'result' of the 'lateral tilt' that occurs as the lower body (upper rear leg and lower torso) twists forward while the shoulder line resists that rotation. It is the shoulders resistance to that action that leads to the "lead shoulder jutting up".

I knew the sliding/pushing shoulder would be a hard habit for her to break. Result of the body moving the right way or not, I think the shoulder slamming into a wall and jutting up might help her with understanding rotation around an anchor instead of sliding and rotating at the same time. She is trying to turn the barrel, but I think she having a tough time doing it as the gears slips forward.. I will explain the resistance as well, so she knows she's not just lifting her shoulder.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

There has to be some force or moment which tilts the shoulder plane..not that it matters in terms of executing the swing I was just curious as to what you think is the physical mechanism for the shoulder tiilt
being initiated by the resistance.

It isn't the 'resistance' that 'initiates' 'shoulder tilt'. It is more that the resistance defines the path of energy flow. Again, accomplished hitters initially resist rotation of the shoulders in-line with the lower body's twisting-like action. Hitting is largely about the flow of energy ... and it basically comes down to the flow of energy, or action, following the path of least resistance. With the opening up of the shoulders momentarily blocked/resisted, the lead shoulder follows a path of moving upwards. That lead shoulder upwards movement in turn results in the leadarm pulling on the handle of the bat.

 

[_MIA_]

It isn't the 'resistance' that 'initiates' 'shoulder tilt'. It is more that the resistance defines the path of energy flow. Again, accomplished hitters initially resist rotation of the shoulders in-line with the lower body's twisting-like action. Hitting is largely about the flow of energy ... and it basically comes down to the flow of energy, or action, following the path of least resistance. With the opening up of the shoulders momentarily blocked/resisted, the lead shoulder follows a path of moving upwards. That lead shoulder upwards movement in turn results in the leadarm pulling on the handle of bat.

Gotcha...thanks!!

 

[Buttermaker]

Julray, I wouldn't use that as a model. Work on the forearm swivel to turn the barrel. Don't worry about the lead shoulder. It's a non teach.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Julray, I'd recommend experimenting a bit and figuring out which model best reflects reality.

Several kids weren't getting the HI-swivel concept .... and the clarification below helped them.



Note the comment in the video segment above ... "What I have always demonstrated as my swivel is basically the same thing as the oar lock."

When he speaks of the "Bottom hand pulling" ... that pulling should not be a 'bottom hand pulling' action due to a folding of the lead arm ... it is a 'bottom hand pulling action' that takes place as the lead shoulder is moving upwards. Take note of where the callused/toughened skin is located in the hands of a pro ... it isn't in their top-hand, but their bottom-hand. The skin becomes callused and thickened because of the forceful pulling action we are discussing.

Take note that golfers, who generally wear one glove, wear that glove on what we would consider their 'bottom-hand'. It's the only hand that needs a glove ... assuming you feel the need for a glove.

 

[julray]

Julray, I wouldn't use that as a model. Work on the forearm swivel to turn the barrel. Don't worry about the lead shoulder. It's a non teach.

I don't know, it's kind of hard to work on that motion when the shoulder slipping forward is dominating the swing. I've seen her forearm swivel when isolated, but when integrated with the swing the shoulders are dominating. I understand why I need to be cautious with this, just want her to get the feeling how the shoulders should behave. Every MLB hitter video I have looked at shows the front shoulder popping up. Regardless cause or effect, I want her to feel what it's like to swing with your back and to stop pushing forward.

Thanks