So tired of hearing "it's not fair" from other parents

[CycloneSoftball22]

Agree.

For players who don't share the same religious beliefs, a prayer circle forces them into an uncomfortable choice -- Either they join in something that is not who they are, or they don't join and draw unwanted attention to themselves for walking away. Teammates should be as one on the ballfield, IMO. What you said is well put - ''It builds a difference and a distance that wasn't there before.''

To this , I pretty much say " so what?" If they truly believe in their convictions to not do it , then the attention they receive just wont matter to them. I have had players on my team not join in and nobody ever brought it up. The rest of the team never treated them any differently. They all know it is a personal choice

 

[riseball]

My husband and I are both lapsed churchgoers ....

I am a Catholic School survivor from the 60's. Saw nuns do stuff to kids that would send teachers to prison today. Sounds like DD is a typical kid with typical kid struggles. You are good parents and she will find her own way. Sounds to me like she thinks somewhat deeper than most kids.

 

[BobInMadison]

It sounds like Dino DD is, well, a thoughtful teenager. She's not the only one who has decided to do something to make a stand for Truth or Honesty or Honor or some other principle.

Sometimes kids get carried away with it, but, aren't you glad she wants to be true to herself and others? She just needs to figure out the best way to deal with the situation.

 

[Rocketech1]

To this , I pretty much say " so what?" If they truly believe in their convictions to not do it , then the attention they receive just wont matter to them. I have had players on my team not join in and nobody ever brought it up. The rest of the team never treated them any differently. They all know it is a personal choice

The issue with team prayer is its exclusionary to anyone that isn't that particular religion or is an atheist. Who decides which religion's prayer is going to be used? If most of the kids on the team are Jewish, should we only say Hebrew prayers? What about the 4 kids who have strong catholic beliefs in this scenario? To heck with them you say? Why put them in that situation and what are you really accomplishing by conducting a team prayer that excludes certain teammates. Seems counterproductive to a team environment and self righteous.

 

[riseball]

The issue with team prayer is its exclusionary to anyone that isn't that particular religion or is an atheist. Who decides which religion's prayer is going to be used? If most of the kids on the team are Jewish, should we only say Hebrew prayers? What about the 4 kids who have strong catholic beliefs in this scenario? To heck with them you say? Why put them in that situation and what are you really accomplishing by conducting a team prayer that excludes certain teammates. Seems counterproductive to a team environment and self righteous.

Sometimes when I go to parties they do not have my favorite beer but I seem to muddle through. A non-sectarian prayer should suffice. I guess that leaves out the atheists but that should not matter. After all it is about freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. Sometimes I bring my own beer and sit quietly and enjoy it, maybe share it without bitching about what was served.

 

[CoogansBluff]

After all it is about freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.

No one is saying that it's against the law to have prayer circles. People are saying that it's not considerate to put players in a position of making a choice - join teammates and pretend to be something you are not, or be left out of a team activity that is taking place on the ballfield where a game just took place.

At many tournaments, there are brief Sunday services held for about 30 minutes. I don't take much issue with that because it's off the field. It's not a team activity. But when you are on the field, you are a team. It's wrong, IMHO, to put players in that position of having to choose between participating w/ the team or pretending to be a Christian.

 

[CoogansBluff]

To this , I pretty much say " so what?" If they truly believe in their convictions to not do it , then the attention they receive just wont matter to them. I have had players on my team not join in and nobody ever brought it up. The rest of the team never treated them any differently. They all know it is a personal choice

What I hear you saying is that you really don't care how they feel. Their feelings are meaningless since they either lack the conviction not to care, or they lack the courage to make an issue of it before the coach or team.

 

[riseball]

No one is saying that it's against the law to have prayer circles. People are saying that it's not considerate to put players in a position of making a choice - join teammates and pretend to be something you are not, or be left out of a team activity that is taking place on the ballfield where a game just took place.

At many tournaments, there are brief Sunday services held for about 30 minutes. I don't take much issue with that because it's off the field. It's not a team activity. But when you are on the field, you are a team. It's wrong, IMHO, to put players in that position of having to choose between participating w/ the team or pretending to be a Christian.

Over the past couple of decades as a coach I have easily been in over 100 prayer circles. More often than not I would be hard pressed to ascertain a specific deity that was being thanked at the end of the game. Maybe it was Jesus, Budda, or even Allah. For all I know it could have been Miley Cyrus as they are usually pretty basic. "Thanks god for a great day, good friends, and please don't let us die on the car trip home." That's about it. Not quite sure how anyone of any religion finds that offensive unless they or their parents have an agenda. If you are an atheist, it is very simple: do not participate. If it makes you uncomfortable get used to it. Right or wrong you have along road of uncomfortable situations ahead of you.

 

[CoogansBluff]

Not quite sure how anyone of any religion finds that offensive unless they or their parents have an agenda. If you are an atheist, it is very simple: do not participate. If it makes you uncomfortable get used to it. Right or wrong you have along road of uncomfortable situations ahead of you.

RB - I don't mind that we disagree on this. Honest folks can do that, and you're literally one of my top 10, if not top 5, favorite posters on this forum.

However, I would like to have you at least understand my point of view. Based on this post, I don't think that you do. I have never said that prayer circles are offensive. I think prayer circles are kinda cool -- when you know that everybody wants to do it.

My objection is when they occur without consideration for the possibility that it puts some players in the uncomfortable position of having to participate, or be left out. It's a fact that this conflict occurs. We've had one mother on this thread testify to it on behalf of her daughter.

I care about this player's feelings and would not put her in that position on the ballfield right after a game. Others don't think it's important enough to be considerate of this kid's feelings. That's fine. Just a difference of opinion.

 

[riseball]

RB - I don't mind that we disagree on this. Honest folks can do that, and you're literally one of my top 10, if not top 5, favorite posters on this forum.

However, I would like to have you at least understand my point of view. Based on this post, I don't think that you do. I have never said that prayer circles are offensive. I think prayer circles are kinda cool -- when you know that everybody wants to do it.

My objection is when they occur without consideration for the possibility that it puts some players in the uncomfortable position of having to participate, or be left out. It's a fact that this conflict occurs. We've had one mother on this thread testify to it on behalf of her daughter.

I care about this player's feelings and would not put her in that position on the ballfield right after a game. Others don't think it's important enough to be considerate of this kid's feelings. That's fine. Just a difference of opinion.

Thank you for your kind words. So I would ask, what would you propose as a solution? Do we poll the players and in the absence of unanimous consent prohibit the prayer circle? Do we ask them to take it off the field to behind the dugout? If someone is uncomfortable with it occurring behind the dugout, do we then move it to the parking lot? While I appreciate that it may from time to time make some players uncomfortable, is it fair to others who wish to participate? It is a very complex issue with no easy answer. I look forward to the next practice with my 18U team and having a team discussion. Although I am afraid that nothing makes them uncomfortable.