Slap Hitters

[Rolling Hard]

Home field advantage can make slappers harder to get out too. If the ground around home plate is like pavement the skilled slapper can bounce the ball high enough that by the time the ball is fielded there is no play at 1st.
Another value slappers add is putting pressure on the defense causing rushed and errant throws and pissing off the opposing coach. That is true value.

 

[uncdrew]

To expand on what you say about weak hitters, they aren't as likely to put in the work to become decent hitters, much less the ADDITIONAL work needed for slapping.

Two other things working against these younger kids (like you touched on) is not understanding how fast you need to be to have an advantage over straight-up hitting. Just because a kid is the fastest on the team doesn't mean she has the speed to beat the defense.
Also is is rare for the younger kids to be playing on a field that is hard enough to get that high infield hop you see in college games on tv. Maybe it's different in southern states with more sun-baking of the infields.

Either way, I'm not likely to recommend slapping unless I see an exceptional talent.

Interesting point. We play on the incredibly hard Georgia clay. It's annoying. We play against the top 14U talent and I've seen many slappers but none yet have hit the ball so hard into the ground that they beat out an infield single. I've seen it happen on TV, and it's pretty cool technique to run while the infielder helplessly waits for a ball to come down.

But the main result (against our team) is just a ground out to the left side.

 

[uncdrew]

lol, I apparently fell rear end backwards into a good point by bringing up Juan Pierre. I didn't see that coming. I'm gonna pat myself on the back like I'm some genius, but thank you to those who used his stat lines to make the real argument.

Logically it makes a ton of sense. I still don't know that I like it. I like people that can get on base. But hitting is hard. So stringing a bunch of hits together to reward a singles hitter is even harder. The more you can control your own destiny with power and extra base hits, the better.

You are a genius.

Yea, if my DD is going to swing, she's going for doubles. Sometimes will get HRs, sometimes singles, sometimes outs. Line drives to the gaps is what we strive for. And yes, she's changed a few games with one swing. A timely HR or 2-3 RBI double. Often when it fails it's still a Sac Fly.

We have two good slappers on the team. They are near the top of our team in BA and they're fast and exciting to watch. It's a nice mix with the 2-3 power hitters and 4-5 contact hitters we have. Softball/baseball is a nice lesson in "it takes all types to make a team".

 

[Nuwin]

Interesting point. We play on the incredibly hard Georgia clay. It's annoying. We play against the top 14U talent and I've seen many slappers but none yet have hit the ball so hard into the ground that they beat out an infield single. I've seen it happen on TV, and it's pretty cool technique to run while the infielder helplessly waits for a ball to come down.

But the main result (against our team) is just a ground out to the left side.

This is a fascinating observation. I tell my catchers to bounce a ball in front of home plate to get an idea on how a ball in the dirt is going to react when blocking, and many times it just thuds where we play. Little to no bounce. It's also hard to hit high choppers in practice.

Field quality can render you rather useless if it absorbs all your energy.

 

[uncdrew]

This is a fascinating observation. I tell my catchers to bounce a ball in front of home plate to get an idea on how a ball in the dirt is going to react when blocking, and many times it just thuds where we play. Little to no bounce. It's also hard to hit high choppers in practice.

Field quality can render you rather useless if it absorbs all your energy.

Grounders get to the outfield fast on hard GA clay, that's for sure. But then again, it's even faster on turf. We play about 20% of our games on turf, and that number probably increases as we're noticing some facilities moving to turf.

 

[warbird]

No but analytics also put a high value on getting to 1st base. OBP is highly valued. I look at a pure slapper like India Chiles, in her senior year she had an OBP of over 500 and a slugging of 501. So an OPS over 1000 which I think most analytics would consider very good especially relative to her era. She did that without hitting many doubles as her BA was 459 so a slugging of 501 does not include many extra base hits.

I agree with this.
I thought this was the entire purpose of slapping? If you are fast enough to slap and beat out the ground ball, you are fast enough to steal 2nd base. Why would you want a slapper to hit doubles?

 

[Nuwin]

Why would you want a slapper to hit doubles?

The data is managing to the averages to maximize potential runs scored. And while I may not be able to fully wrap my head around why a double is functionally different than a single and stolen base is different, the game plays out the way it does. Situational awareness and knowing you have someone that is exceptional in a skill can override a baseline analytics decision. Yet it can also explain why the overall trend is moving toward or away from something because the average player is not exceptional at anything.

 

[canyonjoe]

I think the reason they are dropping is that the defensive players are so much better today versus the past. It takes truly elite slappers to succeed where in the past you could be by with being a great slapper and fairly fast or vice versa but now you need to be both. From my experience there were slappers who were almost impossible to get out but here were a lot more who really didn't scare me. Also catchers today are so much better so it's more difficult to steal making a single not such a huge advantage.

 

[CoachCeetar]

I think the reason they are dropping is that the defensive players are so much better today versus the past. It takes truly elite slappers to succeed where in the past you could be by with being a great slapper and fairly fast or vice versa but now you need to be both. From my experience there were slappers who were almost impossible to get out but here were a lot more who really didn't scare me. Also catchers today are so much better so it's more difficult to steal making a single not such a huge advantage.

pitchers too. More movement means that the margin for error is smaller, because a little more break and your 'slap' becomes a pop-up, a foul-tip, or a swinging strike. Faster pitches means less time in the spot you need to hit it to put it where you intended.

 

[daywalkerdad]

On base is very important but if you limit to singles your ob% needs to be higher probably .025 -.05 or so.
To me the hitters goal should be to get on base, and the goal of swing to be a shot to the gap. Getting on base leads to more at bats for teammates in different innings, this added effect may not jump out on the RE charts.
A player getting on base 5 more times in 100 at bats would probably make up for 10 bases.
Problem is many contact hitters have a higher ba but walk less so the end up about the same ob%.