Jennie Finch was famous for her pitching. That swing isn't good. You do NOT want your hands to go toward your front hip and then pop back up to the shoulder. That isn't an arc she's doing, it's a "V" swing, which is not good.
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Jennie Finch was famous for her pitching. That swing isn't good. You do NOT want your hands to go toward your front hip and then pop back up to the shoulder. That isn't an arc she's doing, it's a "V" swing, which is not good.
FiveFrameSwing
Banned
Jdaddy ... if that was the intent, then I'm fine with it. Sort of like the intent of the cue "hands above the ball".
Still believe the overall sequence needs a redo ... ... ... if I were working with her I'd start there. Things seem to go a lot smoother once the sequence is in reasonable shape ... IMO anyway.
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daddy…looking forward…. I want to go full circle and have you thinking ahead. I pm'd you some info on reading on the site.
LOOKING FORWARD
When she gets her lower body better better into ideal contact…start working on many of these things from reverse loading. You can reinforce and improve all the motions/positions sequences etc…from here.
REVERSE LOADING is.
Rather than going from stance to load…to launch….it is going from launch to load. It will not overload her…and this is where you do most of your work.
From a good launch position…reverse hips to a load (rotate rearward )till most weight is on inside rear foot…rear elbow comes up as front heel comes up. Her reverse load… right now… would be this. From heel drop back to toe touch.
This would be reverse loading…to firing lower body/upper body to ideal impact…for where she is at right now.
Most of our tee work is from reverse loading…fully (elbow up as front heel up). Partial reverse load is the same except elbow stays slotted to the side.
For future reference...This is where you want her at each pitch…at a point…to either commit to swing or not. Yes yes fire….Yes yes no.
This is a position here to also feel when the hip rotation starts pulling on the front shoulder…for cueing when to fire engine 2 and throw the barrel of the bat thru the ball.
I think tewks article here What Made Jose Bautista’s Swing So Short – Part 1 Hand Path will give you some good insight about this. While he is talking about hand path..its a good article in reference to commitment of the swing.
So there is a lot going on in the launch position area. This is why we spend most of our time in launch positions and why its so important to be passing thru a good launch position.
The best hitting girls…have the ability to be firing and hold up at this point. They are very good at yes yes no…having began to fire hips before commitment or hold up…and they do it on ALL pitches. I personally believe…more than anything…this is the big SECRET to good hitters…if there was a secret. The brains ability to calculate WHEN and WHERE a ball will be is directly tied into this. Firing on all pitches…. helps the brains ability to estimate what it needs to know by vision and seeing the ball….from a point where the body is ready to commit or not.
She can also improve her "sequencing" here…. going with reverse loading and firing engines…that will allow her to lear to relax and loosen up…adding her own style as time goes on. Play around with reverse loading with the front thumb as the bat yourself and you will feel how you can play with timing, rhythm and sequence...going form reverse load to ideal impact.
Once she can do reverse loading…your ready…to make decisions on what you want to work on and start setting up drills, tee work, soft toss.
Whether it is lower hands, motions of hands, front shoulder relaxed more or load/coil/stretch…do so with reverse loading …then reinforce going from stance thru ideal impact.
Just do it with as few cues, moves or positions as you can…so you don't overload her…and maintain/improve the basic motions as she works on them still.
I will mention coil and stretch….cause it will now be easier for her to learn from this position…which will take me full circle…if she gets the lower body better in the swing phase this week.
LOAD/COIL and KNEE LIFT
Since coil it is basically rotating the pelvis on the right femur/leg…cocking the hip showing the pitcher the front rear pocket, rear hip moves backwards(not rearwards)….it really doesn't matter how hi or low ...the knee needs to go to feel that.
Caitlin has coil and little to no knee lift. She does walk away from the hands during stride. Caitlin's efficiency is something I really appreciate.
Look at the model hitters and watch their coil and knee actions. The extremes are from a very little knee lift to higher knee lift while coiling.
You know that one limit to how far you bring the hip around is associated with… how far can she do it before it takes the shoulders off line…and both eyes off the ball.
Its also dependent on the strength of her core muscles and rear hip muscles…at her current level of strength. So its how much can she physically handle. The stomach muscles will play a large role in stabilizing the low back and pelvis. As you work on coil…if you have her pull in the stomach muscles more…she will learn to control it more.
These limits will change as she gets physically older…and comfortable in her body positions/motions/rhythm.
Working on knee lift with coil.
From a good launch position….reverse load..rotate hips rearward cocking the hip…as the heel lifts…bring the front knee up and down/around (however you feel like describing it) …keeping the weight on the INSIDE of the rear foot. At the point you have reached rotating rearward on the hip…pointing rear pocket to the pitcher…. thrust the front heel out… to go into a launch. The heel thrust while keeping the front knee down…helps keep the hip coiled as she goes into toe touch. Her body knows it has to turn knee out or flop foot around to take the weight….they fill that in automatically unless their proprioception is terrible.
You can reinforce that by doing the same motion with the Bat behind the back drill….just bring the knee up and around as cock your hip…in your dry drill warm ups.
You can also reinforce it …by starting in a slightly open stance…bringing front knee up and around as the hips rotates…to the desired position and thrust the heel out into launch.
You can also practice it by…holding stick in rear hand…front arm/shoulder down and relax (lateral tilt towards pitcher)…rotate hips rearward…lift knee up and around touching front heel with hand….thrust heel out.
As long as she can control it…without getting rear weight totally over the rear leg…and thrust into launch good. I like for them to rotate the hips lifting the knee enough to feel like they need to sit it right back down because the weight is definitely on the inside of the rear foot. They can feel that if the weight doesn't get over the rear leg/foot.
STRETCH and STRIDE
Once she can do a coil with a knee lift…she will be more ready to feel…more stretch…in one to two ways.
1. Reverse load coiling hips…take hands back as she brings knee up/elbow up….leave hands back…as she thrust front heel forward.
2. Reverse load coiling hip…leave hands a little more forward…bring knee up/elbow up…take hands back as she thrust front heel forward.
After next weekend I began running in and out of town….and doing a lot more softball when in town…so I wanted to come full circle. There a lot of excellent in-depth posts on each of these subjects that have been explained better than I. I think you will find them easier to follow and be able to filter what is useful or not for where your at with her.
My goal has been to show a practical process for daddies, rec ball and tb coaches that is useful…and they can form there own process for what they deal with…with their players.
IMO…The biggest change she has had to get "her body" to feel… is the swing phase. Once she feels that to a better degree…and starts works from reversing loading…she will be able to deal with other issues a lot easier imo.
Look forward to seeing your dd progress.
LOOKING FORWARD
When she gets her lower body better better into ideal contact…start working on many of these things from reverse loading. You can reinforce and improve all the motions/positions sequences etc…from here.
REVERSE LOADING is.
Rather than going from stance to load…to launch….it is going from launch to load. It will not overload her…and this is where you do most of your work.
From a good launch position…reverse hips to a load (rotate rearward )till most weight is on inside rear foot…rear elbow comes up as front heel comes up. Her reverse load… right now… would be this. From heel drop back to toe touch.
This would be reverse loading…to firing lower body/upper body to ideal impact…for where she is at right now.
Most of our tee work is from reverse loading…fully (elbow up as front heel up). Partial reverse load is the same except elbow stays slotted to the side.
For future reference...This is where you want her at each pitch…at a point…to either commit to swing or not. Yes yes fire….Yes yes no.
This is a position here to also feel when the hip rotation starts pulling on the front shoulder…for cueing when to fire engine 2 and throw the barrel of the bat thru the ball.
I think tewks article here What Made Jose Bautista’s Swing So Short – Part 1 Hand Path will give you some good insight about this. While he is talking about hand path..its a good article in reference to commitment of the swing.
So there is a lot going on in the launch position area. This is why we spend most of our time in launch positions and why its so important to be passing thru a good launch position.
The best hitting girls…have the ability to be firing and hold up at this point. They are very good at yes yes no…having began to fire hips before commitment or hold up…and they do it on ALL pitches. I personally believe…more than anything…this is the big SECRET to good hitters…if there was a secret. The brains ability to calculate WHEN and WHERE a ball will be is directly tied into this. Firing on all pitches…. helps the brains ability to estimate what it needs to know by vision and seeing the ball….from a point where the body is ready to commit or not.
She can also improve her "sequencing" here…. going with reverse loading and firing engines…that will allow her to lear to relax and loosen up…adding her own style as time goes on. Play around with reverse loading with the front thumb as the bat yourself and you will feel how you can play with timing, rhythm and sequence...going form reverse load to ideal impact.
Once she can do reverse loading…your ready…to make decisions on what you want to work on and start setting up drills, tee work, soft toss.
Whether it is lower hands, motions of hands, front shoulder relaxed more or load/coil/stretch…do so with reverse loading …then reinforce going from stance thru ideal impact.
Just do it with as few cues, moves or positions as you can…so you don't overload her…and maintain/improve the basic motions as she works on them still.
I will mention coil and stretch….cause it will now be easier for her to learn from this position…which will take me full circle…if she gets the lower body better in the swing phase this week.
LOAD/COIL and KNEE LIFT
Since coil it is basically rotating the pelvis on the right femur/leg…cocking the hip showing the pitcher the front rear pocket, rear hip moves backwards(not rearwards)….it really doesn't matter how hi or low ...the knee needs to go to feel that.
Caitlin has coil and little to no knee lift. She does walk away from the hands during stride. Caitlin's efficiency is something I really appreciate.
Look at the model hitters and watch their coil and knee actions. The extremes are from a very little knee lift to higher knee lift while coiling.
You know that one limit to how far you bring the hip around is associated with… how far can she do it before it takes the shoulders off line…and both eyes off the ball.
Its also dependent on the strength of her core muscles and rear hip muscles…at her current level of strength. So its how much can she physically handle. The stomach muscles will play a large role in stabilizing the low back and pelvis. As you work on coil…if you have her pull in the stomach muscles more…she will learn to control it more.
These limits will change as she gets physically older…and comfortable in her body positions/motions/rhythm.
Working on knee lift with coil.
From a good launch position….reverse load..rotate hips rearward cocking the hip…as the heel lifts…bring the front knee up and down/around (however you feel like describing it) …keeping the weight on the INSIDE of the rear foot. At the point you have reached rotating rearward on the hip…pointing rear pocket to the pitcher…. thrust the front heel out… to go into a launch. The heel thrust while keeping the front knee down…helps keep the hip coiled as she goes into toe touch. Her body knows it has to turn knee out or flop foot around to take the weight….they fill that in automatically unless their proprioception is terrible.
You can reinforce that by doing the same motion with the Bat behind the back drill….just bring the knee up and around as cock your hip…in your dry drill warm ups.
You can also reinforce it …by starting in a slightly open stance…bringing front knee up and around as the hips rotates…to the desired position and thrust the heel out into launch.
You can also practice it by…holding stick in rear hand…front arm/shoulder down and relax (lateral tilt towards pitcher)…rotate hips rearward…lift knee up and around touching front heel with hand….thrust heel out.
As long as she can control it…without getting rear weight totally over the rear leg…and thrust into launch good. I like for them to rotate the hips lifting the knee enough to feel like they need to sit it right back down because the weight is definitely on the inside of the rear foot. They can feel that if the weight doesn't get over the rear leg/foot.
STRETCH and STRIDE
Once she can do a coil with a knee lift…she will be more ready to feel…more stretch…in one to two ways.
1. Reverse load coiling hips…take hands back as she brings knee up/elbow up….leave hands back…as she thrust front heel forward.
2. Reverse load coiling hip…leave hands a little more forward…bring knee up/elbow up…take hands back as she thrust front heel forward.
After next weekend I began running in and out of town….and doing a lot more softball when in town…so I wanted to come full circle. There a lot of excellent in-depth posts on each of these subjects that have been explained better than I. I think you will find them easier to follow and be able to filter what is useful or not for where your at with her.
My goal has been to show a practical process for daddies, rec ball and tb coaches that is useful…and they can form there own process for what they deal with…with their players.
IMO…The biggest change she has had to get "her body" to feel… is the swing phase. Once she feels that to a better degree…and starts works from reversing loading…she will be able to deal with other issues a lot easier imo.
Look forward to seeing your dd progress.
A few more swings from this weekend. Thoughts and opinions appreciated!
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FiveFrameSwing
Banned
Swing sequence remains a primary issue IMO. All-back followed by all-fwd ... leading to other issues downstream.
Where / how would you begin working on sequence? Thanks.
FiveFrameSwing
Banned
Posted this elsewhere ...
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Me ... I'd target the sequence first ... Coil-Stretch-Swing. While focusing on the sequence I'd continue to emphasize the importance ... even go as far as to tell her that "sequence trumps everything". Point out how Dixon considers the "Stretch" to be one of the main differentiating factors between being "average" and being "exceptional". Get that right ... then move on to other points of emphasis.
You can use some drills to get the basic Coil-Stretch sequence going ... ... ... the intent being to capture the Coil-Stretch sequence exhibited in those drills, and bring that sequence forward into her swing.
The Coil-Stretch sequence is very easy to understand from a throwing perspective ... almost natural for many kids ... the intent of course is to bring that natural sequence into the swing.
The walk-through is another drill that allows one to flow with a good sequence. You can use this drill to get the Coil-Stretch sequence going, then capture it, and bring it into your normal swing.
Just some thoughts. Would like to see her sequence improved.
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Me ... I'd target the sequence first ... Coil-Stretch-Swing. While focusing on the sequence I'd continue to emphasize the importance ... even go as far as to tell her that "sequence trumps everything". Point out how Dixon considers the "Stretch" to be one of the main differentiating factors between being "average" and being "exceptional". Get that right ... then move on to other points of emphasis.
You can use some drills to get the basic Coil-Stretch sequence going ... ... ... the intent being to capture the Coil-Stretch sequence exhibited in those drills, and bring that sequence forward into her swing.
The Coil-Stretch sequence is very easy to understand from a throwing perspective ... almost natural for many kids ... the intent of course is to bring that natural sequence into the swing.
The walk-through is another drill that allows one to flow with a good sequence. You can use this drill to get the Coil-Stretch sequence going, then capture it, and bring it into your normal swing.
Just some thoughts. Would like to see her sequence improved.
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- Oct 25, 2009
- 3,335
- 48
This looks pretty good to me except that the hands fire ahead of the hip. Lead with the hip and I think you'll see a pretty good swing.
A better test will be if she can do what she's doing from a front-tossed pitch.
Again, the bad thing in this swing is the hip not leading. Also, her top half is lunging. The hip leading will probably take care of that. The load looks good, the stride looks good.
FiveFrameSwing
Banned
Softballphreak ... you mentioned that the load looks good ... but it's basically a uni-load, which isn't good IMO. You also mentioned that the stride looks good, yet it is all-forward ... which isn't good, IMO anyway. Personally I view the sequence as a bit of a mess ... and until that is addressed it will likely be rough sledding for this kid.
FiveFrameSwing
Banned
My guess is that this grip has been instructed. Is she purposely aligning her door knocking knuckles? Why?
