I had a discussion recently with some team coaches and pitching intructors, and they were advocating teaching young pitchers a bullet spin fastball. From the research I have done, many experts believe a true bullet spin fastball has the least amount of movement of any pitch and I voiced my concern. They told me that bullet spin fastballs have lots of movement and should be taught. What are your thoughts?
Should pitchers be taught a bullet spin fastball?
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In my opinion, I wouldn't teach a bullet spin fastball. I wouldn't go all crazy if it was happening anyway, but I'd prefer it to have more 12-6 spin, even if it's not moving.
For younger pitchers I think it's a safety issue, although I have no documentation on it. But to get a bullet spin it seems to me you'd have to twist your wrist like you would opening a door (or throwing a doorknob rise). That can put added stress/stretch on the tendons in the elbow and will probably lead to some elbow pain.
With the doorknob rise, there are two differences. One is it's usually not taught until the pitcher is a little older and her body is more mature. Two is that you keep the fingers facing toward third base instead of moving toward home, so there isn't as much twisting going on (one plane instead of two if my vague memory of geometry is correct).
Then there's the IR argument. I teach my students IR -- have done it since long before I heard it called IR -- but there is a natural point toward the bottom of the circle where the hand turns forward all on its own. That results in 12-6 spin, even when the ball is still facing away somewhat right before that point.
For younger pitchers I think it's a safety issue, although I have no documentation on it. But to get a bullet spin it seems to me you'd have to twist your wrist like you would opening a door (or throwing a doorknob rise). That can put added stress/stretch on the tendons in the elbow and will probably lead to some elbow pain.
With the doorknob rise, there are two differences. One is it's usually not taught until the pitcher is a little older and her body is more mature. Two is that you keep the fingers facing toward third base instead of moving toward home, so there isn't as much twisting going on (one plane instead of two if my vague memory of geometry is correct).
Then there's the IR argument. I teach my students IR -- have done it since long before I heard it called IR -- but there is a natural point toward the bottom of the circle where the hand turns forward all on its own. That results in 12-6 spin, even when the ball is still facing away somewhat right before that point.
My DD throws a bullet fastball. It does some very odd and unexpected things. About 25% of the time is takes a weird break. Usually a drop or a screw for about 3-4 inches of movement. Occasionally a rise hop or a late curve for about 3 inches.
I don't think it has started to hurt her yet performance wise. At 12u it's not like she's trying to live in the black, just put it over the corner-ish. Every once in a while it runs a few inches off of her spot...if she was going to hit it. If she was on target it's still close, close enough it would seem since her K/BB ratio is better than average for our area. I can't imagine the bobbing and weaving it occasionally does is doing the batters any favors.
I don't think it has started to hurt her yet performance wise. At 12u it's not like she's trying to live in the black, just put it over the corner-ish. Every once in a while it runs a few inches off of her spot...if she was going to hit it. If she was on target it's still close, close enough it would seem since her K/BB ratio is better than average for our area. I can't imagine the bobbing and weaving it occasionally does is doing the batters any favors.
Thanks Bishop. What would you attribute to the "odd and unexpected" movement or "weird break" that happens 25% of the time. Is it that the pitch is not a true bullet spin, meaning the pitch is angled (tilted) in relation to its spin. For example, if you throw a true bullet spin fastball the catcher would see a small dot in the center of the ball as it spins (like a bullet) counter clockwise. When you see the weird movement, is it because the pitch has a different spin such as 2/8 rotation (e.g. more like a screwball) than a true bullet spin?
Just trying to understand how bullet spin can have lots of movement since others have said that it has the least amount of movement if thrown "correctly".
- Jul 26, 2010
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Bullet spin does not cause any break. It's the same spin on a football thrown with a good spiral, which clearly does not break.
All unexpected movement on a fastball does is make for more passed balls.
I know a few old-school PC's that teach bullet spin fastballs. I've heard the argument that it can stress the arm, and also the argument that it is actually better for the shoulder joint then throwing flat or IR. I've seen no medical proof that justifies any of those statements.
Learning how to throw a bullet spin fastball can help a pitcher learn how to spin the ball, which helps later on, but barring that I don't see any benefit for it. It's very hard to do a bullet spin with an IR movement, so given that, I'd rather not use the bullet spin approach.
-W
All unexpected movement on a fastball does is make for more passed balls.
I know a few old-school PC's that teach bullet spin fastballs. I've heard the argument that it can stress the arm, and also the argument that it is actually better for the shoulder joint then throwing flat or IR. I've seen no medical proof that justifies any of those statements.
Learning how to throw a bullet spin fastball can help a pitcher learn how to spin the ball, which helps later on, but barring that I don't see any benefit for it. It's very hard to do a bullet spin with an IR movement, so given that, I'd rather not use the bullet spin approach.
-W
For some of these coaches, what is the real objective? Is it to actually teach the kids how to throw a bullet spin or is this a first step in learning how to roll the ball off the side of the index finger and therefore, used as an initiation to throwing a rise ball later on? As far as throwing a riseball, the mechanics are basically the same as a drop ball (not the grip) except that the internal rotation of the arm is delayed by about 6 inches in the release zone so that the palm of the hand is facing 3rd base at release. Up to about 6 inches from the release point, I would be surprised to see much difference except maybe the ball being a little deeper in the hand for the rise ball because of the nature of the grip. Sure some pitchers try to do something different in their follow through for the rise ball but the ball is gone already. I have never taught people how to throw a bullet spin but I have initiated them to 2 basic types of releases, one of which was to release the ball off the side of the index finger. Then it was time to get them used to having the palm face 3rd base more and more, hopefully leading to the makings of a rise ball with the proper grip. Having said the above, I do realize that everyone is not the same.
why is it called a bullet spin? Because a bullet is intended to go straight (no curving action), and spinning it via rifling in the barrel provides exactly that result.
If the intent is to maximize the speed of a fastball, employing the fingers/delivery action to impart a bullet spin, instead of driving the ball directly off the fingertips, is self-defeating.
jim
If the intent is to maximize the speed of a fastball, employing the fingers/delivery action to impart a bullet spin, instead of driving the ball directly off the fingertips, is self-defeating.
jim
????
After all, we wouldn't want the batter to have to adjust her swing to abrupt changes in the flight of the ball. It might be more difficult for her to hit the ball.
