Screwing in foot for the Move...

[Wellphyt]

another good rear hip angle clip:

http://firstpickclub.com/video/apujolssep.gif

rear hip gets and stays IR'd.

then comes spine engine stretch and fire sequencing of rear hip EXTENSION, leg/hip ADduction, front leg extension at knee.

rear leg remains in IR. front leg IR's to accept rear hip action.

well-

you/your wife might want to contact batgirl/lynnelles who understands the patterns well.

Lynnelles: "I'm a mom of 3 boys (ages 10, 12, 14) and have been trying to help them with their swing. I coach my 10 year old's baseball team. I'm also a physical therapist so I've been trying to understand the swing biomechanically. I've studied info from JM, ME, PN, SE and CO. In each of their teachings, some aspect did not make sense to me biomechanically. I was searching online for answers about loading, unloading, timing and thankfully stumbled across HI."


See her swing at:

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Tom, I'm not interested in learning the pattern as described by hitting illustrated. I feel like I am getting good results following the teachings described by Williams. Ted describes the hip action very clearly. No where does Ted describe the hip action like it is described at HI. The HI idea that there is a battle raging in the rear hip socket; which is eventually won by the rear leg, sending the hips into rotation is IMO silly. The same group of muscles that coil the hips, are basically the same group of muscles that uncoil the hips. IOW, both the coil and uncoil actions are done with various combinations of muscles that make up the butt muscles. The idea that the same group of muscles are simultaneously battling each other is nuts; IMO.

Same goes for HI's "spring in the rear hip socket" theory, which is a similar nutty idea IMO.

Why in the world would I follow the advice of people who never had one swing in MLB baseball, over the advice of Ted Williams, who had approx 4700 MLB at bats?

 

[Wellphyt]

So the ultimate reason for getting the rear heel down is so that the rear foot can do its job which is, "Do not rotate towards the catcher!". Without the heel down, there isn't enough ground contact to prevent it from spinning out (towards the catcher) while the leg/hips are coiling (towards the catcher).

Here's my interrpretation of lower body coil/load.

[Lower half coil]

1. With and open stance (front foot out while rear foot steps into position in the box).
2. Position the rear foot in position (foot should be straight into the plate or even pigeon toe'd, but not toe'd out at all).
3. With the heel down, dig the foot in or screw the foot in, but make sure it's locked for maximum holding strength.
4. With a bent and firm rear leg, position the front foot in the box. This will coil up the rear leg and rear hip (breakdown below)
   
   As the lead foot comes into the box:
   4a. The ankle and lower leg torque against the rear foot which can't move.
   4b. The knee and upper leg then torque against a lower leg which is max'd out in movement.
   4c. The rear leg is fully coiled and hopefully the front foot is still not fully into position.
   4d. Now the remaining rotation will come in the form of the rear hip coiling up against the upper leg
   [*]Front foot is now positioned with rear leg and hip coiled.​

[/LIST]

Not completely sure what you are describing here; but if your goal is to teach the weight shift as described by Williams, then you don't want the kids to coil while in their stance. Hitters that coil in their stance lose the back and forth action of the hips that Williams believed was crucial to generating power.

 

[tom.guerry]

well -

you won't get the uninterrupted metronomic back and forth hip action without doing it the under the hood way as described at HI.

If you/your wife wants to hear about it from a lady physical therapist who coaches and takes hacks, contact lynnelles.

Spine engine wise, the stretch and for loads and unloads/strteches and fires to prepare for then execute a sequence of stretch shorten cysles as described by Myahira in golf.

for the MLB pattern, the rear hip gets and stays in IR.

then there is hip flexion preparing for extension and leg ABduction preparing for aDduction and lead leg flexion preparing for extension.

coil/uncoil is not same muscles or reverse of same muscles.

"firing" of stretch and fire is by rear hip extension,leg ADduction and front leg extension at knee while rear hip remains in IR and front hip accepts rear hip action by IR.

or you could just think about it as a bunck of butt muscles doing something

 

[pstein]

Tom, I'm not interested in learning the pattern as described by hitting illustrated. I feel like I am getting good results following the teachings described by Williams. Ted describes the hip action very clearly. No where does Ted describe the hip action like it is described at HI. The HI idea that there is a battle raging in the rear hip socket; which is eventually won by the rear leg, sending the hips into rotation is IMO silly. The same group of muscles that coil the hips, are basically the same group of muscles that uncoil the hips. IOW, both the coil and uncoil actions are done with various combinations of muscles that make up the butt muscles. The idea that the same group of muscles are simultaneously battling each other is nuts; IMO.

Same goes for HI's "spring in the rear hip socket" theory, which is a similar nutty idea IMO.

Why in the world would I follow the advice of people who never had one swing in MLB baseball, over the advice of Ted Williams, who had approx 4700 MLB at bats?

BM is making some really good points over at the other site about the hips and how they drive.

The hip gets moved by the leg, but the Hands and HIPS drive the swing.

 

[Wellphyt]

well -

you won't get the uninterrupted metronomic back and forth hip action without doing it the under the hood way as described at HI.

That's an amazing statement considering the person who runs the HI site claims on video that the hips unwind as soon as the front foot is lifted to stride. Which is the exact opposite of what Williams says to do.

IMO, the way you get the back and forth uninterrupted metronomic hip action is to do what Williams says to do.

Step one: coil/cock your hips as you pick up your front foot to stride.

Step two: let your head/torso come forward to maintain balance.

Step three: get your butt into it.

When you get your butt into it causes the back leg to want to laterally rotate (back foot wants to turn back towards the catcher). However the back leg can't laterally rotate because the back foot is in a cleat in the dirt. In Ted's case, he built a small berm behind his back foot to insure that there would be no chance of his back foot slipping and turning back towards the catcher. The end result is a shift forward.

Lots of people like to say that the back leg is what turns the hips forward. The problem I have with that approach is that it can get kids thinking about actively using the back leg, which I have found can cause kids to give up the pressure at the back foot before the hips have had a chance to reverse and complete the transition from turning back to turning forward. Giving up the pressure at the back foot prior to the completion of the transition is what some of us call leaking the coil. I am very familiar with this issue because my DD used to do it.

Another issue that can occur when actively using the back leg, is that some kids will push forward off the back foot and get too much forward movement of the head and torso after heel plant. Ideally you want the forward turn of the hips pulling the back foot off of the ground. When Ted was specifically asked about his back foot coming off the ground, he said it was due to his hips unwinding.

 

[jryan15]

Not completely sure what you are describing here; but if your goal is to teach the weight shift as described by Williams, then you don't want the kids to coil while in their stance. Hitters that coil in their stance lose the back and forth action of the hips that Williams believed was crucial to generating power.

Ok, don't coil in the stance. Does the Williams model promote any pre-torque of the leg? So should the coil be produced with hip cocking during a negative move? Sorry for my lack of understanding.

 

[Wellphyt]

Ok, don't coil in the stance. Does the Williams model promote any pre-torque of the leg? So should the coil be produced with hip cocking during a negative move? Sorry for my lack of understanding.

No need to feel sorry about asking a question. It took me five years to figure out how to teach the weight shift. One reason it took me so long to figure it out is because of all the bad information on weight shift floating around the internet. The only way I was able to figure it out was by reading material from Ted Williams. Out of frustration, I went to the local bookstore and spent $16 to buy "The Science of Hitting". I thought it was going to be a waste of money, because how much can a book written back in 1970 help, in this day and age of laptop computers and motion analysis software? As it turned out, the "TSOH" was the answer for me. In addition to "TSOH" I accidently stumbled on a published interview between Gammons, Boggs, Mattingly and Williams, that took place after Williams retired. That interview helped to crystallized what Ted spoke about in "TSOH". Then shortly after getting my hands on those two publications, Boardmember on another site posted information from a guy with the tag name Sevam1, talking about the importance of maintaining pressure at the back foot during the transition. Google the "Secret in The Dirt" if you're interested. Those three pieces of information is what lead me to my current understanding of weight shift.

Not surprisingly, my views on weight shift no longer match conventional wisdom. I've found that when it comes to teaching hitting, conventional wisdom is frequently wrong. Here is how Ted put it:

"If there is such a thing as a science in sport, hitting a baseball is it. As with any science, there are fundamentals, certain tenets of hitting every good batter or batting coach could tell you. But it is not an exact science. Much of it has been poorly defined, or not defined at all, and some things have been told wrong for years. The consequence is a collection of mistaken ideas that batters parrot around." -- Ted Williams

To answer your question; let me first say that the term "hip cock" and "coil" mean the same thing to me. They both mean to turn the hips backwards. I also like to use the term "wind the hips". Often times I will tell the girls that in order to unwind something you must first wind it up. It's my way of giving them a mental image of the importance of turning the hips back, before they turn them forward.

Williams doesn't say anything about pre-torque of the back leg. Williams believed that the back and forth pendulum action of the hips was critical. He viewed the hip action as a simple back and forth turn of the hips. He referred to it as a pivot, a swivel, a move-counter move, a pendulum/metronome movement, a spinning action with the head as the axis. All of those terms are used in "TSOH".

According to Ted, it is critical to perform the hip cock as you pick up the front foot to stride...as you stride. When I teach weight shift now, I tell the girls that the reason they pick up their front foot, is not to stride; but to cock their hips. This changes the thought process from a first move of reaching out with the front foot to stride; to one of cocking the hips.

When the front foot gets picked up the hitter has to figure out a way to balance without leaning back over their back leg or swaying backwards a bunch. The only way to do it is to let the torso and head drift forward. This sets up the forward by coiling action that some of us speak of. A common issue that I see with many of the clips of kids that get posted here is the desire to open up the front foot or front side during the stride. This is another bad habit I had to break my DD of. In my DD's case the premature opening up of the front foot came from doing bad drills.

So the hitter is coming forward a small amount to maintain balance, and they are turning their hips back. If they have a sequence their hands will also have the appearance of moving back ever so slightly, typically seen by the front shoulder turning down-and-in.

The hitter is now coiled with their hands back and approaching toe touch. They are now ready to hit, or as Ted says: "the swivel or pivot, the opening of the hips".

If the kids learn to turn their hips back, what you will quickly realize, is that the forward hip turn just happens. It has to happen. It's impossible to swing and not uncoil. During the transition when the hips begin to reverse is when attention needs to be given to pressure at the back foot and working the back arm in a way such that the elbow works underneath the hands sending the barrel behind the hitter rather than sending the barrel towards the ball. You do not want the barrel moving towards the ball as the back elbow slots. If correct back arm action is used to slot the back elbow, the hips will naturally get out in front of the hips, creating separation.