Screwball

[efastball]

If you have 12u pitchers learning to throw 4 pitchers and they don't have command of a basic fastball (with good internal rotation and a 12/6 spin) then you're setting them up for failure.

I fail to see the logic in denying them the 3 extra pitches. The 3 extra pitches are not going to stop them from controlling a fastball. Plus, 12U ball means nothing. This kid could end up being the best drop ball pitcher in the state.

 

[_MIA_]

I fail to see the logic in denying them the 3 extra pitches. The 3 extra pitches are not going to stop them from controlling a fastball. Plus, 12U ball means nothing. This kid could end up being the best drop ball pitcher in the state.

I know nothing about softball pitching (and probably nothing about hitting... ) but even if learning other pitches doesn't make learning to control the fastball more difficult from a mechanics perspective, what it does do is cut the number of fastball reps down unless you increase the number of practice pitches alltogether. It is the same sort of argument some use against having kids learn to switch hit in baseball (albeit the advantage of switch hitting is not nearly as much as a pitcher having multiple pitches which they can get hitters out with..).

 

[radness]

If you have 12u pitchers learning to throw 4 pitchers and they don't have command of a basic fastball (with good internal rotation and a 12/6 spin) then you're setting them up for failure.

And you've been on this site long enough to know that the goal of the pitching help on this site is for pitchers to learn proper IR: there's a whole forum on it.

If you have pitching coach friends that are teaching Suzy Q to throw a bullet spin with hello elbow they're doing her a disservice.

It's like saying I've got hitting coaches who teach squish the bug because it's different strokes for different folks.

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I think your talking about pitchers by age.
I am commenting they develop at different ages.
Never did i say dont learn to find the plate first.
_______________
Even in 12u pgf premier nationals a pitcher only locating fastballs will get smashed, even with mixing in some change ups. So usually will also see some curves or drop spins mixed in. Power surge san diego team couple years back had a 12u big strong fast pitcher who threw a rise. Up pitch whatever it was handling the job.

However 12u rec. simply locating fastballs may be okay.

Which creates different perspective on what people see, and what needs to be done.

The goal in rec may still be find the plate.
But the real bigger goal is to throw around it.
Pitchers reach that goal differently.
Most know learning spins is essential and the next step.
Natural to want to examine and learn it.
Its not defined by an age imo.

Just commenting to my original post.
No one size fits all.

 

[cnardone]

Even in 12u pgf premier nationals a pitcher only locating fastballs will get smashed, even with mixing in some change ups. So usually will also see some curves or drop spins mixed in.

understanding one size does NOT fit all, and there are always outliers:

• If you can't locate your fastball, you won't even make it to nationals.
• If you can't locate your fastball there is a good chance can't locate anything else.**

For me this is the crux of the matter and @pattar tried to hammer home

• If you can't locate your fastball and you can't control a change (or whatever your secondary pitch happens to be), then cutting your practice reps by adding a 3rd pitch isn't going to help either of the first 2 pitches get better.

**I am not including the "I usually have control, but today I don't" scenarios in this sentence. This is for the pitcher who don't have any control on good days.

 

[ArmWhip]

When I think a pitcher can handle it I usually include a short session on spinning the ball in every lesson. I want them to start thinking about spin, what kind of spin is on their fastball and change up. If the spin on either pitch varies then their mechanics are inconsistent. I have on several occasions had pitchers whose change up improved when they started putting a little rollover curve spin on the ball.

 

[efastball]

• If you can't locate your fastball and you can't control a change (or whatever your secondary pitch happens to be), then cutting your practice reps by adding a 3rd pitch isn't going to help either of the first 2 pitches get better.

This logic doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

I know dozens of HS baseball pitchers that did not have great fastballs, but they got their outs with great curves, splitters, changeups, sliders, etc.

 

[radness]

understanding one size does NOT fit all, and there are always outliers:

• If you can't locate your fastball, you won't even make it to nationals.
• If you can't locate your fastball there is a good chance can't locate anything else.**

For me this is the crux of the matter and @pattar tried to hammer home

• If you can't locate your fastball and you can't control a change (or whatever your secondary pitch happens to be), then cutting your practice reps by adding a 3rd pitch isn't going to help either of the first 2 pitches get better.

**I am not including the "I usually have control, but today I don't" scenarios in this sentence. This is for the pitcher who don't have any control on good days.

Understand your point of new pitchers learning.
Find consistancy is necessary.
My point even if you can find the plate with a fastball, if you dont have more, you wont make it to nationals...because fb will get crushed!


For those that keep focussing on only learning to find the plate with a straight pitch, thats fine!
( again never said dont do that!)
However to get competitive there must be more!
Thats the point!

Simply saying,
Growth is NOT determined by age!!! Do NOT limit growing by lingering on the straight pitch...
This is usually where pitchers who leave rec go to travel in 12u and start getting pummeled!

Will add this,
Some pitchers get stuck trying for months and months learning a pitch like a certain change up...
Sometimes it just wont happen ever...THEN A LIGHT BULB COMES ON....
TRY A DIFFERENT CHANGE UP~
and BINGO they find a new techniques that does work.

I know this to be true on throwing overhand mechanics also.
Some keep working a throwing mechanic with a limited growth result. Start falling behind in throwing speed.
To then~ Make an adjustment to find growth!

There are multiple body styles,
With variety of strengths, weaknesses, muscle controls.
That simply put, not everyone will find the same success on the same paths!

 

[_MIA_]

I know dozens of HS baseball pitchers that did not have great fastballs, but they got their outs with great curves, splitters, changeups, sliders, etc.

Not great as in velocity or not great as in didn't know where it was going or both? Also how did they do in college/pros? Most HS hitters are not very good..you know that.

 

[radness]

Lets look at different perspective.

When I think a pitcher can handle it I usually include a short session on spinning the ball in every lesson. I want them to start thinking about spin, what kind of spin is on their fastball and change up. If the spin on either pitch varies then their mechanics are inconsistent. I have on several occasions had pitchers whose change up improved when they started putting a little rollover curve spin on the ball.

^^^this !!!

Variety can make us think through and learn differences!!!

 

[_MIA_]

Lets look at different perspective.

^^^this !!!

Variety can make us think through and learn differences!!!

DD's team's pitchers (both 12 YO) walked 24 batters in 4 pool games (14 innings total) last weekend. If by variety you mean them learning to throw with the opposite hand then I am all for it..