Screwball

[Quasimodo]

Would agree that if the screwball requires the opposite spin of a curve...then no one throws a screwball that has enough speed and spin to do anything. However, there are many discussion on this forum that talk about how balls break in different directions that oppose spin direction logic. My DD (righty) throws a rise ball that quite often breaks up and to the right. I know another girl (also a righty) that has consistent right break on her pitches. Her pitches have more of a bullet spin.
So what do you call a pitch from a righty that breaks right but not based on spin direction?

Much of this is not directed at you, but
That pitch is probably tilted with an axis about 8:00-2:00 on the clock, and tilted with the 8:00 axis is tilted back just a little; in other words the spin is facing or turned toward the batter a little. Nothing unusual about it. I teach a rise-curve, pulling the release up toward the glove shoulder. Just moves it in on a LH batter a little, or from a Lefty in on a RH batter.

Ask any batter to set a ball on a batting tee to hit it as hard as she can. They will set it approx. waist high. Preferred pitch locations are generally mechanically horizontal. Swings low outside present problems, and pitches on the inside paint at the knees are very problematic as well. Riseballs at the top of the zone are problematic. That is why I believe in focusing on the vertical pitches, drop, change, rise. They for me are foundation pitches you learn to command. And you can survive on only these 3 pitches. Curve-balls are a supplemental pitch. Screwballs thrown regularly become homeruns. If you can't command your pitches then you are a "7 pitch pitcher", in other words you are a batting practice pitcher.

 

[cnardone]

I'm trying to understand the logic of not learning various grips at a young age.

Why would you limit yourself? That's like saying only learn addition until the 12th grade, then move on to multiplication.

Learning grip #2 doesn't stop you from learning grip#1. How do you know which pitches will be successful for them?

Even you learned (at least) 3, not one.

To stick with this analogy, no one is suggesting to only learn how to add until 12th grade. We are suggesting that you don't do multiplication until you are competent at adding. Taking it further, with the limited time, energy, focus available to your average 12-13 yo, trying to teach algebra and geometry at the same time would be difficult for the student to take in everything.

When it is time to learn a new pitch, I am totally on board with playing with grips and different pitches and seeing what is most....comfortable (for lack of a better term). But then focus on the one, while continue to improve the others you already know.

 

[ArmWhip]

Here is a link to a Rapsodo chart showing break on various pitches. The screwball shows 2" as average, 4" as elite. I believe the numbers are from the WCWS. Keep in mind that Rapsodo numbers come from calculated break not real, observed, break. They gather information on speed, flight direction, RPM and spin axis, then calculate the break based on a formula. If you look at the screwball you see that true spin and spin efficiency are very low. This means that the pitches thrown do not have much 'screwball' spin, which is what most of us already know.


In the research that I have been reading on SSW movement Rapsodo gives contradictory conclusions from real observation. Rapsodo may say 6" break to left with 4" vertical rise but the pitch breaks down and to the right.

https://rapsodo.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/College-Softball-Pitching-Guide.pdf

 

[radness]

Grips and Pitches my .05 cents~
Putting every person/youngster/tween/teen
on the same
'age prescribed learning path'
can also be detrimental.
As some players simply grow faster!
( also start at different ages, and have different deligence to training)

Dont say what a person cant do,
Look for what a person CAN DO !

No one size fits all...

 

[Gtrips07]

Grips and Pitches my .05 cents~
Putting every person/youngster/tween/teen
on the same
'age prescribed learning learning path'
can also be detrimental.
As some players simply grow faster!
( also start at different ages, and have different deligence to training)

Dont say what a person cant do,
Look for what a person CAN DO !

No one size fits all...

Where did I say one size fits all? What I said if you can't master a pitch; (and 95% is what you should shoot for) why do you think you can master a second, third, and fourth one?

Is Suzie Q is 10 and can place her fastball where she wants a good 80% of the time and can put her change where she wants 80% of the time then more power to her. She's the exception to the rule. As someone else said if you put it in math terms if you can't add and subtract you shouldn't be doing algebra.

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[Gtrips07]

You are probably a lot younger than me, but you are my hero!

Even at 14u having command of two pitches will get you far. Not throwing two different pitches but having command. Played a Cali Batbusters team in January and their most successful pitcher threw just that but was able to put where she wanted.

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[efastball]

Where did I say one size fits all? What I said if you can't master a pitch; (and 95% is what you should shoot for) why do you think you can master a second, third, and fourth one?

I took English in college, but never mastered it. I also took math and was pretty good at it.

You never know what pitch (or position, or sport, or..) will be your best. Telling every kid that walks in that they must master a fastball until they learn a second pitch is doing a disservice to every kid searching for their path to greatness.

 

[radness]

Where did I say one size fits all?





What I said if you can't master a pitch; (and 95% is what you should shoot for) why do you think you can master a second, third, and fourth one?

Is Suzie Q is 10 and can place her fastball where she wants a good 80% of the time and can put her change where she wants 80% of the time then more power to her. She's the exception to the rule. As someone else said if you put it in math terms if you can't add and subtract you shouldn't be doing algebra.

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Was not commenting at any of your posts Gtrips07.
Just added a comment to the thread.

 

[Gtrips07]

I took English in college, but never mastered it. I also took math and was pretty good at it.

You never know what pitch (or position, or sport, or..) will be your best. Telling every kid that walks in that they must master a fastball is doing a disservice to every kid.

You understand that basic fastball spin is applied to a drop, so if you can't get the spin for a fastball you want have the spin for a drop or a rise and probably doubtful for a rise either. That doesn't leave you with many pitches left. Every pitcher should learn a fastball, regardless if long term it becomes one of her main pitches.



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[Gtrips07]

Not to be argumentative, rather talk about the goals of pitchers.

Pitchers first learning to throw are learning to control the ball to
find the plate. Aren't always learning the same spins like a drop spin or a bullet spin on their fastball... Mostly they're just trying to find the plate any which way.

Which is the same task
( to find the plate)
as when they learn a drop, curve, rise, change.
Most pitchers develop some different spin without movement first and the movement follows with more spin and rotation.

Just making the comment that
if the goal is still finding the plate.
At some point all pitches start with the same goals.

Every pitching instructor i know has pitchers working on atleast 3 or 4 pitches by 12u
Fastball, change + usually curve and or rise or drop..

Every pitcher i caught in upper ages and beyond had several change ups plus 3/4 other pitches.
Fastball became least called pitch.

If you have 12u pitchers learning to throw 4 pitchers and they don't have command of a basic fastball (with good internal rotation and a 12/6 spin) then you're setting them up for failure.

And you've been on this site long enough to know that the goal of the pitching help on this site is for pitchers to learn proper IR: there's a whole forum on it.

If you have pitching coach friends that are teaching Suzy Q to throw a bullet spin with hello elbow they're doing her a disservice.

It's like saying I've got hitting coaches who teach squish the bug because it's different strokes for different folks.

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