Screwball

[uncdrew]

Again, last night at the park, listened to a dad explain to another dad how his DD throws her screwball "with her legs".

Her fastball is about 40 mph. Her screwball? Well, I never saw it that day.

 

[BrianTx01]

Mid 50s is rare in 12U but it happens. Most of the 12U rise balls appear to be just high fastballs. My 12U DD can throw mid 50s and we haven't even started on the rise ball yet. People have told us that we need to wait until she gets to 43'. Probably need to start soon.

 

[Hillhouse]

This thread and it's name make me feel as if I've being electrocuted 19 times but I just won't die.

 

[efastball]

Most of the time this comes from the pressure of the girl's teammates who claim their coach has taught her 6 pitches. The daughter hears the teammate has 6 pitches and thinks she's behind. This upsets momma. And when momma is mad, daddy gets mad. And once again it's one of those situations where the other girl doesn't actually have 6 pitches. And I think I've broken some hearts when I have said unapologetically that I only threw 3 pitches, not 7 in my career.

I'm trying to understand the logic of not learning various grips at a young age.

Why would you limit yourself? That's like saying only learn addition until the 12th grade, then move on to multiplication.

Learning grip #2 doesn't stop you from learning grip#1. How do you know which pitches will be successful for them?

Even you learned (at least) 3, not one.

 

[Gtrips07]

I'm trying to understand the logic of not learning various grips at a young age.

Why would you limit yourself? That's like saying only learn addition until the 12th grade, then move on to multiplication.

Learning grip #2 doesn't stop you from learning grip#1. How do you know which pitches will be successful for them?

Even you learned (at least) 3, not one.

Well if you can't figure out the grip, and mechanics, of the fastball and a changeup, its doubtful you're going to figure out the both for something else. Bill's not saying not to work on grips, but don't call something with the same spin something different just because the location of where the pitch goes.

And as others have said here, you want pitches to be able to be thrown exaclty where you want it 95% of the time. Riseball's DD would work on hitting a string and make it move in a specific direction. That's call mastering a pitch.



Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Hillhouse]

I'm trying to understand the logic of not learning various grips at a young age.

Why would you limit yourself? That's like saying only learn addition until the 12th grade, then move on to multiplication.

Learning grip #2 doesn't stop you from learning grip#1. How do you know which pitches will be successful for them?

Even you learned (at least) 3, not one.

Gtrips is right, this isn't about grips. If you think stepping out to the left so she can angle a ball inside can call it a "screwball" has anything to do with a grip, you're mistaken.

There is an ongoing debate about the riseball. Does it go up or just drop less? Smart people on both sides make their arguments. But, EVERYONE agrees that the only way it could be possible is if the ball had backspin on it. Not bulletspin like 98.5% of pitchers do, but actual backspin thrown hard. WIthout the spin, there's no argument to be made by the people who believe the ball rises. No matter the pitch, the ball should spin in the direction it's supposed to move. Backward on a rise, forward on a drop, sideways on a curve, etc. Nobody can spin the ball with a scewball spin, nobody. You get bullet spin, with a step to the left and an angle to the right. It has nothing to do with grips it has to do with the false belief of what is happening. The ball isn't "screwing" it's just thrown inside. Are inside pitches effective? OF course. But lets be honest about what it does. This pitch, by name and definition, is a waste of time.

So it's not about grips.

 

[efastball]

And as others have said here, you want pitches to be able to be thrown exaclty where you want it 95% of the time.

I want what you're smoking. Straight into my veins.

"That's call mastering a pitch. "

This is exactly the problem with this logic and approach. You are not trying to 'master a pitch'., you are trying to get people out. Most kids can't get outs with one pitch.

You should be learning to master pitching, not master a pitch. Use a 2nd/3rd/4th pitch to get outs. When do you throw the 2nd pitch? When to throw any pitch in/out/up/down or out of the strike zone. What pitch to throw next based on the result of the previous pitch. All of this is much more important than mastering a single pitch at a young age.

 

[Quasimodo]

This is very true. And I hear this all the time. Someone tells me about their wicked "screwball" and when I catch it, there is simple forward (dropball/fastball) spin, the pitcher usually takes a massive step to the left and throws the ball way inside to the RH batter. The pitcher's dad usually gushes about how much that moved and how effective that pitch is. On more than one occasion I've broken hearts by telling people it's not doing what they think it is. How can the ball curve inward when it's spinning forward??? This is when they backpeddle to say "but she gets a lot of people out with it!!!" And that's great. Lets talk about the importance of pitching inside and jamming the hands. It's a huge part of pitching. But lets be honest about what the ball is doing and what's happening. Despite all the wild grips, despite all the drastic stepping differences between that pitch and others, despite that it ends up inside: what you have is an inside pitch. Inside pitches can be effective!!! But lets stop pretending they curve the opposite way.

If anyone ever watches the game Cricket, you will see the pitchers (called Bowlers in Cricket) constantly rub the ball on their clothing to keep one side shiny and one side gets scuffed up. Having 2 different textures on the ball provide the ability for it to "swing" side to side from the airflow. Softball and baseball pitchers can do this too sometimes, although mostly by accident. With the right finger pressure on the ball, I could make my drop have a cut inside to a RH batter too. It's just a slight difference in finger pressure that alters the rotation slightly. I would never want to lose the dropping action in favor of a "screw" action.

Outstanding! I had the D1 pitcher from Dallas who is currently at a D1 School ranked about 160. She throws only a "screwball" and a riseball. Her riseball is mediocre and 60-61mph. Her screwball which I caught is an angled fastball inside, sometimes. When both catch too much of the plate, she gets hammered for extra bases. Half of the hits off of her are for extra bases. She has no true down pitch, no drop, no curve at the knees, and throws her changeup about twice a game. Her curveball did not break 1". I talked her into dropping it and working on a drop-ball and her changeup. However, she refused to slowdown to learn the proper release and spin on the drop. Everything had to be 100% game speed. It was my biggest waste of 8 lessons. I confess I am not good at teaching a peel-drop, and she already had attempted the roll-over, which I do teach. Sorry 'bout that!

 

[Quasimodo]

I want what you're smoking. Straight into my veins.

"That's call mastering a pitch. "

This is exactly the problem with this logic and approach. You are not trying to 'master a pitch'., you are trying to get people out. Most kids can't get outs with one pitch.

You should be learning to master pitching, not master a pitch. Use a 2nd/3rd/4th pitch to get outs. When do you throw the 2nd pitch? When to throw any pitch in/out/up/down or out of the strike zone. What pitch to throw next based on the result of the previous pitch. All of this is much more important than mastering a single pitch at a young age.

I agree with both of you, and I think alone, both of you are right and wrong! I don't think it is that difficult to teach pitch "command" with proper technic and drills. And still they should learn how to set up batters with changes of speed, movement, and location (and eye-level). This is an example others know, and I have always shown my young pitchers.

 

[Quasimodo]

This mom does.

Oh wait.

Anyway, I've held off my DD's pitching coach from teaching her a curve for about 6 months. I want her to be amazingly sound on her fastball and change first.

But I completely agree with you. So many "fellow pitcher dads" brag to me about how their DD is learning the rise-screw, or the ultra-drop, or the cut-splitter with a lemon twist. I reply with "we're working on her change up." :|

You are probably a lot younger than me, but you are my hero!