Rules are the rules....unless they aren't???

[ConorMacleod]

And you know this how? The best advice I was given years ago when I complaigned. My assistant who had coached top teams for years and came out of retirement to work with team had asked me, "Why do you care? Let's just worry about our own pitchers and let them play the game."

You are wasting entirely too much energy worrying about a 12 year old girl's pitching in a C tournament.

I disagree. And I figured some here would bring up the point that its a 12u 'C' tourney. I ask you; do 12 year olds matter? Does the fact its a C tourney matter? Should my team be at a disadvantage and not care about losing because they aren't older and more skilled? As a head coach, I feel it's my duty to teach my kids the rules, and the other team should follow them as well. And the quote of "why do you care?" is ridiculous in my opinion. We should never care that the other team breaks the rules and has an advantage? Ok for you I guess. But I don't coach that way.

 

[ConorMacleod]

The umpire said she was dragging her toe. The opposing coach said she was leaping. The umpire even said he could see the drag mark. If the drag mark is at the pitcher's plate or immediately after whatever hole they dug in front of it, it's legal. You can't drag and leap. You can leap, then drag. You can drag, then leap (that's called crow hopping). But you can't have a simultaneous drag and leap.

It is unnatural to leap. Anyone who takes their kid to an instructor and the kid walks away doing something illegal can either (a) get their money back or (b) not complain when someone says their kid is a cheater.

Never say anything to an umpire that you wouldn't say to the opposing team. There are no secrets on the field. That DOESN'T mean you say it to the other team, it only qualifies what you ought to be complaining about to the umpire. The other team has the right to know if you are accusing them of violating a rule.

I once had a 12u tournament game. Pitcher was blatantly illegal. During the inning, I called time to go tell the head coach what the issue was. I had just removed my mask and taken two or three steps toward the bench when the head coach said, "Chrissy, pitch legally." I threw the coach out. He wanted to know why. I told him that it was unsportsmanlike to knowingly put a player out there who was going to cheat. It was unsportsmanlike to teach her to do that and to get away with it as long as it wasn't called. Safety is first. Moral and character development is second. Don't ever forget that. I hope this coach didn't.

I would say her toe drag started approximately 3 feet away from the pitching rubber. The base ump and myself had a very good angle from the first base box. Close? No. 5-6 inches in the air? Yes. It was the biggest leap I had ever seen. No exaggeration. The head coach from the other team is known as an "intimidator" to other coaches, so I wasn't going to talk to him. Now, I don't want to make it seem I was up in arms the entire game, or filed a protest, or asked to see the tourney director. I inquired about it between the first and second innings, and stated I believe the Home plate ump was entirely wrong in his application of the rule, then went back to my dugout. The next inning the opposing coach got in my face and wanted to know what I was talking to the umpire about. The umpire can tell him, because I wasn't going to. It was the Umpires judgment that she wasn't illegal. Not much I could say at that point.

 

[ConorMacleod]

Take a chill pill, dude! At the 12U C level it is hard to find a girl that can throw the ball near the plate, nonetheless to be perfectly "legal" and mechanically correct!!! So, get this girl kicked out of the game for "cheating". And the next one, too! And soon you won't have a game to play. But maybe that's what you want. To be declared the victor. Go for it!

You clearly are not from this area. And nowhere did I say "get her kicked out". At the C level around here, the Umpire would bring the coach out to the pitching rubber with the pitcher, tell her how she is throwing an illegal pitch, and give her a chance to correct it. All of this before a single illegal pitch is actually called. Also, 12u C pitchers around here throw a ton of strikes. They are usually slower than the pitchers at the higher levels, and don't throw much besides a fastball and change up. It's their team talent that makes them a C team, not necessarily bad pitching. I believe you are thinking of rec ball, not tournament ball talent. FYI: my team paid the same entry fee as everybody else. Asking for the rules to be applied shouldn't be a luxury.

 

[ConorMacleod]

Two tournaments so far this year, where I've umpired 16 games. In those games, I've called about ten illegal pitches. Roughly 5 for leaping, 3 for stepping onto the rubber with the hands joined, 1 for a double touch of the hands, and 1 for the stride foot sliding back off the rubber before the pitch.

In most cases, the coach was incredulous because his pitcher "had never been called for that before". Also in most cases, the pitcher immediately adjusted and pitched legally from there on in.

And all I asked was that a warning be given!

 

[CPEM]

I did hear this weekend that a 12U all-star pitcher was called 2x for an IP for striding outside the 24inch "lane". That would be the first time at this level I have seen this call. I guess umpires pick and choose what is important to them to enforce?

I wonder if this was me. I called this on a pitcher during an all-star friendly not too long ago. First time I noticed it, I wasn't sure if I saw what I thought I saw, so I didn't call it. The very next pitch there was no doubt about it. The coaches were dumbfounded.

 

[Rocketech1]

I wonder if this was me. I called this on a pitcher during an all-star friendly not too long ago. First time I noticed it, I wasn't sure if I saw what I thought I saw, so I didn't call it. The very next pitch there was no doubt about it. The coaches were dumbfounded.

Might have been you. The tournament was last weekend in the Los Angeles area (SFV). These tournaments don't have the chalks lines drawn out from the pitching plate to create the lane so it makes it even that much harder to see the infraction. I didn't see the play, but I can only guess that the pitcher was throwing a screwball whereas some RHPs are taught to jump to the left to throw to the right to create a greater angle to the pitch? When doing so, the pitcher may be striding outside the lane? Just an unusual call for this age group.

 

[smddad]

I disagree. And I figured some here would bring up the point that its a 12u 'C' tourney. I rask you; do 12 year olds matter? Does the fact its a C tourney matter? Should my team be at a disadvantage and not care about losing because they aren't older and more skilled? As a head coach, I feel it's my duty to teach my kids the rules, and the other team should follow them as well. And the quote of "why do you care?" is ridiculous in my opinion. We should never care that the other team breaks the rules and has an advantage? Ok for you I guess. But I don't coach that way.

I have always taken the stance that there is no advantage to leaping. A simple vector analysis tells me if the pitchers is going up, rather than towards the batter, her pitch will be slower.

 

[dbronstein]

I find the comments that's it's okay to willfully violate the rules because no advantage is gained, or that it's "only 12U C ball" to be fascinating. The rules are the rules. Our umps in 10U rec made sure that pitchers were aware when they were doing something wrong. They didn't call illegal pitches, but they warned the pitchers and the coaches to correct it. Stepping back was the primary issue. They aren't going to learn the right way to pitch if they're allowed to pitch the wrong way.

 

[CPEM]

Might have been you. The tournament was last weekend in the Los Angeles area (SFV).

Nah, wasn't me. I stay in the 'other' valley. SFV is too far from home for me.

 

[Rocketech1]

Nah, wasn't me. I stay in the 'other' valley. SFV is too far from home for me.

Hah! Well I guess there are at least two different umpires in SoCal calling IP's for striding outside the pitching lane