Rise ball young pitcher

[starsnuffer]

If I'm understanding all this rise ball info correctly, it appears the rise ball and a plain high hard fast ball are closely related. If the ball is released by pitcher at mid thigh, and the target is above the belly button the pitch will rise from point of release to target. i realize that spin has some effect but I watched a girl pitch in a batting cage that proclaims(her father proclaims) has a nasty rise ball and when viewed several times it appears to stay on line to the target. I could not see any lift in the pitch, and she throws in 60 to 62 mph range.
A lot of dads and PC calls a high fast ball a rise, so is there a huge difference between rise and high fast ball??

Yes, there is. The problem is that there are a ton of dads and daughters who are calling that high fast ball a rise ball, and very few real rise ball pitchers, so the confusion spreads like a plague.

Here's the test. Male FP pitchers will understand this, but you don't see it often in the woman's game: Have the pitcher pitch a low rise ball. The point is to catch the very bottom of the zone. To a batter, this will look like a pitch in the dirt, and they won't swing, but the ball will actually "rise" in the last few feet to the plate to cross just below or at the batter's knees. If it's a fastball, the batter won't be fooled.

-W

 

[FPMark]

Yes, there is. The problem is that there are a ton of dads and daughters who are calling that high fast ball a rise ball, and very few real rise ball pitchers, so the confusion spreads like a plague.

Here's the test. Male FP pitchers will understand this, but you don't see it often in the woman's game: Have the pitcher pitch a low rise ball. The point is to catch the very bottom of the zone. To a batter, this will look like a pitch in the dirt, and they won't swing, but the ball will actually "rise" in the last few feet to the plate to cross just below or at the batter's knees. If it's a fastball, the batter won't be fooled.

-W

If I understand correctly, your saying the pitch would start above the pitchers knee, go down closer to the ground, and then move back up to the bottom of the strike zone? Can you post a video of this? If someone can I will have to change my opinion on the rise ball.

I always considered a rise ball to be effective because it didn't tend to move down in the zone like a typical fastball. Instead it has more of a straight path that doesn't drop at all. Most effectively thrown up in the zone to simulate a belt high conventional fast ball that doesn't level off, but continues it's path up and winds up chest high. makes it very hard for the batter to stay on top of or stop their swing.

Isn't the spin on a RB the same as what we teach all fielders to throw (4 seam back spin) to give the ball more carry? I've never noticed the ball breaking up in the last few feet from SS to first.

Could be wrong, but I'd like to see it on video before I change my mind.

 

[CoachFP]

I know this is a beaten topic, but a rise ball does go up. It may not stay on the inititial trajectory but it will go up none the less. If you have a good angle and proper spin it goes up much better than that high fastball. A low rise does not go down and then up. That doesn't happen and never will.

 

[Coach-n-Dad]

You are correct CoachFP, this is indeed a beaten topic. I nearly argued.

Good luck to all of the young pitchers who's coach and/or dad tells them that their rise ball rises.

 

[starsnuffer]

If I understand correctly, your saying the pitch would start above the pitchers knee, go down closer to the ground, and then move back up to the bottom of the strike zone? Can you post a video of this? If someone can I will have to change my opinion on the rise ball.

I always considered a rise ball to be effective because it didn't tend to move down in the zone like a typical fastball. Instead it has more of a straight path that doesn't drop at all. Most effectively thrown up in the zone to simulate a belt high conventional fast ball that doesn't level off, but continues it's path up and winds up chest high. makes it very hard for the batter to stay on top of or stop their swing.

Isn't the spin on a RB the same as what we teach all fielders to throw (4 seam back spin) to give the ball more carry? I've never noticed the ball breaking up in the last few feet from SS to first.

Could be wrong, but I'd like to see it on video before I change my mind.

No, it doesn't actually go up (as stated, physically impossible, maybe if the ball was hollow), but it uses the same illusion that gets batters when the pitch is high, the batter will think the ball is going in the dirt. It's just much more apparent if done correctly at the bottom of the zone.

-W

 

[Mrek]

If I understand correctly, your saying the pitch would start above the pitchers knee, go down closer to the ground, and then move back up to the bottom of the strike zone? Can you post a video of this? If someone can I will have to change my opinion on the rise ball.

I always considered a rise ball to be effective because it didn't tend to move down in the zone like a typical fastball. Instead it has more of a straight path that doesn't drop at all. Most effectively thrown up in the zone to simulate a belt high conventional fast ball that doesn't level off, but continues it's path up and winds up chest high. makes it very hard for the batter to stay on top of or stop their swing.

Isn't the spin on a RB the same as what we teach all fielders to throw (4 seam back spin) to give the ball more carry? I've never noticed the ball breaking up in the last few feet from SS to first.

Could be wrong, but I'd like to see it on video before I change my mind.

No the low rise does not go down then up. All pitches fall with gravity (it’s the law). All batters have been trained to take this in to account. No matter how fast you throw a fastball it will follow a trajectory of going up, peaking then come down. A fastball just low by 6" or so will be in the bottom half of the zone for 1/2 to 3/4 of the pitch distance, however batters will lay off it as they will (subconsciously) adjust for the fall due to gravity. The low rise looks like the fastball low by 6". "In the zone" for say up to 3/4 of the pitch distance. However, the low rise has enough spin to slow the fall and stay at the bottom of the zone as it crosses. The batter has already given up on it as they "saw it low" 12 feet out. You can tell the low rise as generally, even if the catcher knows it’s coming, the catcher will turn mitt palm up to catch or prepare to block it then have to lift straight up to catch the ball (or get hit in the stomach).

The best part of the low rise is that the coach for the team batting generally gives the batter grief for not swinging at a pitch dead down the middle of the plate. (There is no “hop” from the dugout angle and an outburst can be relied on with the count 2 strikes). Batters will swear it was low.

As noted in this thread, the difference between a rise and an attempt at rise or high fastball is that the rise will peak just between the plate and the catcher (preferably hitting the catchers’ mitt) whereas the high fast ball will peak well before that. So any rise that appears to flatten out or fall in the last 6-8-10 feet just does not have enough spin/speed combination and is at risk of getting hit (far) or is just a ball out of the pitchers hand (as you try to start it higher to compensate for that fall in the last 6-8-10 feet). No rise ball overcomes gravity to actually lift due to spin.

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

Can a riseball be thrown effectively to different corners of the strike zone, not just high? I know its a relatively flat pitch but might be effective to give the batter a different look occasionally other than the fastball if you can hit the corners?

 

[Jojo]

My DD was a rise ball pitcher, predominantly rise and screw. In college the better hitters/teams would learn to not swing at anything they thought was coming down the middle. If they were disciplined hitters, she could get the K by throwing it so low it looked liked an ankle biter but ended at the waist. Always a called strike.
I do have a picture somewhere of her looking like she's about to scrape her knuckles on the ground!

 

[Sparky Guy]

I know this is a beaten topic, but a rise ball does go up. It may not stay on the inititial trajectory but it will go up none the less. If you have a good angle and proper spin it goes up much better than that high fastball. A low rise does not go down and then up. That doesn't happen and never will.

A rise ball does not go up. It falls slower than the speed of gravity due to effect of the laces working against the air. The reason it looks like it's rising is the human brain is conditioned to compensate for the natural falling of the ball. In effect the brain gets fooled into thinking where the ball is supposed to be opposed to where it actually is. That is what gives the impression of the ball "hopping."

 

[CoachFP]

If the ball starts at the hip and ends at the shoulders it does not "fall" slower than the speed of gravity, it has risen. (by the way, gravity doesn't have speed, it is an acceleration concept). What you mean is that it doesn't stay on the same upward plane, but it is still rising. In addition it does not decrease from that initial upward plane as fast as a ball with the improper spin.