Revfire question
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I don't know what distance you use it from but we throw from 43' and I had the same issue with the Revfire so I asked the manufacturer about it. Revfire told me that the calculation used for 43' was developed using college age pitchers and takes into account a relatively large leap distance from the rubber. Since the move to 43' for 14U and above, they are recommending a shorter catching position for "High School" 43'. Instead of setting up 3' behind the point of the plate, they suggest setting up 1.5' behind the point of the plate (with the point of catch 0.5 feet behind the point of the plate). This will increase MHP readings by 5-6%. With this adjustment, the readings are within 1-2 MHP of a radar gun.
- Oct 28, 2009
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As I understand it, there should be a difference between the two readings, if both the radar gun and the Revfire are accurate.
A radar gun identifies the top speed it detects during the pitch. Since air resistance slows the ball during travel to the plate, the top speed is at the release from the hand. The Revfire measures the average speed of the pitch. While a pitch doesn't experience a great loss in speed as it travels, there is some. This loss is ignored by the radar gun, but not the Revfire.
A radar gun identifies the top speed it detects during the pitch. Since air resistance slows the ball during travel to the plate, the top speed is at the release from the hand. The Revfire measures the average speed of the pitch. While a pitch doesn't experience a great loss in speed as it travels, there is some. This loss is ignored by the radar gun, but not the Revfire.
That's what I initially thought too. However, Revfire says the MPH calculation attempts to take into account air resistance. They claim it is supposed to be a max speed reading, not an average speed. I still find it to be 1-2 MHP slow even with their recommended setup adjustments. Average air resistance speed differential on a baseball pitch is about 8% between release and the front of home plate (Depending on a variety of factors). I would think its slightly higher for softball (shorter distance but greater surface area)
- Mar 10, 2009
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Interesting. I have been experiencing a dramatic DROP in speed with the radar gun reading as opposed to the rev-fire. And I mean anywhere from 3-6 MPH. I have the revfire set up from 40' most of the time, and I'll get a reading that is easily 3-5 MPH (and sometimes greater) higher than the Sports Pro Handheld Radar Gun that I have.
- Oct 28, 2009
- 52
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Mrek, Thanks for the information. I have been trying to justify the purchase of a Revfire, even have the money isolated in a drawer. Regarding speed, the FAQ site of Revfire implies that its readings are not peak-detect by stating "If the steps below are followed, the RevFire is normally within 2 MPH of a peak-detect radar gun reading..." (RevFire) I tried to find an on-line user's manual, but could not. In truth, I prefer that Revfire NOT attempt to achieve mathematical compensation for wind resistance and similar factors. Give me "raw" data, since it's improvement by individuals that matters.
Still, my greater concern is for the spin readings. Do you recommend the Revfire?
BH Bill - perhaps it's time to calibrate your radar gun. I don't trust tuning forks, so I get in the car with my DD, get up to selected speeds (40mph, 50mph, 60mph), and then detect the relative speed of a stationary object (road sign) at a bend in the road. If the radar gun and odometer are in sync, we're good to go. The only concern is being mistaken for a couple of drive bys.
Still, my greater concern is for the spin readings. Do you recommend the Revfire?
BH Bill - perhaps it's time to calibrate your radar gun. I don't trust tuning forks, so I get in the car with my DD, get up to selected speeds (40mph, 50mph, 60mph), and then detect the relative speed of a stationary object (road sign) at a bend in the road. If the radar gun and odometer are in sync, we're good to go. The only concern is being mistaken for a couple of drive bys.
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I think its a good quantitative tool to help pitchers build the strength to improve spin rates. Are the spin rates accurate? How could a user tell? But as a relative change tool it is pretty good. One thing it does point out is that spin rate does not necessarily equate to movement. Spin Rate plus axis equates to movement. I have seen my DD throw two curves with 20 RPS, one breaks sharply, one breaks little. Seams to the wind is the difference. So the feedback is good there. It may be a better tool for younger girls as you can better get across what it takes to actually spin the ball. High School age or elite pitchers maybe less because you know what a good break looks like, knowing it was 20 RPS vs 22 RPS is less useful. It definately is useful when learning new spin pitches (Rise). Does it justify the expense? I got it on Ebay for a 30% discount, so I didn't pay retail. I am happy with it.
- Mar 10, 2009
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MVLA - had a buddy of mine get his car set to 40 and 50 MPH on crusie control and gunned him as he drove past. Within .3 to .5 MPH every time. Then set my pitching machine at the settings for which the manufacturer says is 60 MPH, and again within .2 to .4 MPH. So I am tending to believe the Radar gun more than the revfire, but some of the radar guns speeds when I gun live pitchers seem low to me. I'm not a big believer in the "oh she's throwing it around 63" speeds that I hear all the time, but when I get a radar gun reading of 54 or 55 for a pitcher that I am sure is throwing harder, I'm in a bit of a quandry. Now, I will say that I may need to get outside and get directly behind a catcher and see what kinds of readings I get, since I don't really have that kind of space in my facility. It's only 48 ft. long, so I'm always a little off to the side, which I know impacts the gun readings.
I like the revfire for the younger kids, as they get an idea of what they need to do to impart more spin on the ball. I do agree with Mrek's assessment that spin rate does not always translate into sharper break. It's more about getting the correct spin, which is an obvious. And I have found that greater spin rates on a straight fastball don't always translate into greater speed.
I like the revfire for the younger kids, as they get an idea of what they need to do to impart more spin on the ball. I do agree with Mrek's assessment that spin rate does not always translate into sharper break. It's more about getting the correct spin, which is an obvious. And I have found that greater spin rates on a straight fastball don't always translate into greater speed.
Not sure why anyone questions a good radar gun. I have a jugs and a bushnell. They are both within 1 mph of each other. I will say that my DD pitches in the basement over the winter and we get some kind of interference and lower readings. As soon as we go out side, they read a few mph faster.
Bobblehead-- Most kids don't throw 60 and I find it hard to believe you think the gun might be wrong if it says 54-55 when you thnk somone is throwing harder. My DD throws 51-53 alot. In one stretch she hit 54, 55 and 56 mph. She then did a walk through and I got 58. I caught all the pitches and couldn't tell the difference in any of them. I've also seen alot of other kids throw and I wouldn't be able to tell the difference in a 55 mph vs a 58 mph fastball without the gun.
Bobblehead-- Most kids don't throw 60 and I find it hard to believe you think the gun might be wrong if it says 54-55 when you thnk somone is throwing harder. My DD throws 51-53 alot. In one stretch she hit 54, 55 and 56 mph. She then did a walk through and I got 58. I caught all the pitches and couldn't tell the difference in any of them. I've also seen alot of other kids throw and I wouldn't be able to tell the difference in a 55 mph vs a 58 mph fastball without the gun.
- Mar 10, 2009
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mrslug01 - Had a kid get gunned down at Club K 18 months ago by their staff and every pitch was between 59 and 62. Their statement, not mine, "this is the best radar gun on the market so whatever speed you get is your true speed". Same kid gets 54-56 on my gun, and she is throwing at least as hard, if not 1-2 mph harder than she was throwing then. Again, some of the speed I hear is over the top, and I am less concerned with that issue than I am with the big disparity between the Revfire reading and the radar gun. I've caught a lot of girls, and I can assure you, I can tell the difference between 54 and 58. I've actually accurately called out the speed (within 1 MPH) of different pitches before I've gotten the Revfire reading.
