Question for LL coaches re: runners leaving on release

[nanotech14]

I would say maybe 1/2 the season they should suspend that rule , and also they put in the dropped third strike rule last year.I would put it back in so that if you play all-stars. The girls are use to it. I also think that the coaches should monitor the use of these rules. Don't keep doing it to run a score up. It is after all suppose to be fun for the girls that play just to have fun.

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

I guess I have a different perspective on your question.

IMO, the issue has nothing to do with whether or not baserunners should be allowed to leave the base on release of the ball or has to wait until it crosses the plate, but has more to do with the lack of development of your catchers and pitchers. What do I mean?

Tell me if I am wrong, but are you allowing your players to pitch at 8U and play the catcher position as early as 6U? If not, I would seriously consider this option so that your pitchers and catchers can acquire the necessary pitching and catching skills by the time they play 10U, 12U, and beyond . Sounds like you have a lot of walks, passed balls, dropped third strikes, weak pop times from catchers, lots of players getting on base, etc. by the time they reach the "majors" division.

The problem is not the stealing rule, but the way the game is being played early on. If a team was stealing every base at will against my defense, I would not be questioning whether or not the "rule" was the problem, but whether I was preparing and coaching my team appropriately to limit the amount of baserunners in the first place and to limit their ability to steal a base. I think you are trying to put a band-aid on a bigger problem that happens way upstream to your division.

Our local rec league plays under ASA and local rules (which includes having baserunners leaving "at release" and can steal 3B starting as young as 8U). I have seen no downside to this rule and as has been mentioned earlier, prepares them for the rules they will ultimately play under as they get older.

Remember, learning and acquiring a skill can be fun, as long as you afford the player the opportunity.

 

[FPMark]

Best I can recall, our rec league did a pretty good job of progressing to ASA standards.

8U; leave on release, no stealing.

10U; stealing only 1 base at a time (no extra bases on overthrow), no stealing home.

12U; ASA rules.

All ages had run limits per inning of 3 runs, untill the last inning which was called 'open' inning (still had max. of 8 runs). It seemed to work well. 10U was a good time to develop catchers throwing down to 2nd, with no penalty for bad throws.

 

[nanotech14]

But this question involves LL they have there own rules. Most LL don't have the girls even pitching until they are 9yrs old. At that age they do coaches pitch or pitching machine. So they are a little behind the 8 ball.

 

[BB875]

Sorry, this is a long post, but its our local rec league's rules for the 10U age. Our league uses the ASA rulebook, but tweaks some rules to fit the level of ability we have come to expect.


Muscatine Girls' Softball Association
Bantam League Rules
PHILOSOPHY: This league's philosophy is to develop the fundamental skills of beginning ball players. The
main focus of this league should be to foster the girls’ love and enjoyment of the game, while at the
same time introducing a competitive philosophy. Winning and losing should be emphasized but not at
a win at any cost attitude.
The following rules will apply to the Bantam League. These rules will take precedence over conflicting ASA or
other MGSA rules.
1. ROSTERS/SUBSTITUTIONS - The entire roster will bat with open substitution. Each player must play a
minimum of three innings in the field. This applies to both regular season and tournament play.
2. TIME LIMIT - The time limit for games will be 1 hour, 30 minutes for the Bantam League. No new inning will
start after the time limit has expired except in the case of a tie game. For purposes of this rule, a new inning
starts as soon as the third out of the preceding inning has been made.
3. STEALING - Stealing will be allowed. Runners starting at first or second base are entitled to steal one base
per pitch. They may be put out while between bases. They may not steal home, but can be put out while
between third and home.
4. DROPPED THIRD STRIKE – The Batter may not advance to first base if the catcher drops the third strike.
The batter will be declared out.
5. BASE ON BALLS – The Batter who receives a base on balls cannot advance past first base. If they
advance beyond the one base, they will be returned to the correct base after the play is completed. If a
steal attempt by another runner occurs during a walk to the batter and the defense makes a play on
the runner, it will be considered a new play and the batter-runner may attempt to advance to second
base with liability to be put out after passing first base.

6. BASES LOADED WALK or Hit By Pitch– No batter will be allowed to advance to first base on a walk
or when hit by pitch if the bases are loaded. After the fourth ball or immediately following the hit by
pitch, the batters’ coach will pitch to her until she hits a fair ball or strikes out swinging. The
number of pitches allowed by the coach to his player after the fourth ball by the opposing pitcher
will be three (3). The umpire will not call balls or strikes when the coach pitches, rather, the umpire
will only count three pitches after which the batter will be considered out if she does not hit. The
batter AND RUNNERS will be allowed only two (2) bases on a hit in this situation. If a player is hit by
a coach pitched ball she WILL NOT be allowed to advance to first base. The pitch will not count as
one of the coach pitches. The umpire will simply declare it a dead ball.
7. BATTER HIT BY A PITCH - If a player is hit by a pitched ball that strikes the ground before hitting the
player, she WILL NOT be allowed to advance to first base. The pitch will be called a ball. The umpire
will declare it a dead ball.
8. 5 RUN RULE - A team is allowed to score only 5 runs in an inning, during the first 3 innings. The fifth run in
an inning ends the inning for the team at bat. This rule applies to both regular season and city tournament
play, but only the first 3 innings of any game.
9. BALL SIZE & PITCHING DISTANCE - An 11" ball will be used. The pitching distance will be 35 feet.
10. OUTFIELDERS - Four outfielders will be used. All outfielders must be positioned in the grass.
11. HELMETS - Helmets with NACSAE approved face masks and chin straps must be worn when the ball is in
play. Only when play is dead may helmets be removed. Failure to comply will result in the runner being
called out. (This policy is in accordance with the ASA rulebook.)
12. JEWELRY - Positively NO JEWELRY will be allowed except small post earrings in ears recently pierced.
but must be taped over. Any player displaying jewelry items (other than the exception) on their person will
not be allowed to play.
13. UNIFORMS - A full uniform must be worn at all games. This includes the jersey, tucked in, stirrups (if
provided) worn over long socks and shoes. Pants may be long or short but all team members must
be wearing same color.
14. INTENTIONAL WALK - No intentional walks allowed.
15. NORMAL PARTICIPATION - Normal participation rules apply to the city tournament.

 

[obbay]

t has more to do with the lack of development of your catchers and pitchers.

you are correct with regard to catchers, pitching is not a problem.

As I think I mentioned earlier, I'll not argue the change and look to focus more on catching.

The problem is that on a team of 14 girls last year we couldn't find one player that wanted to play catcher. This is not an unusual problem. This change brings that position into even more prominence than before. We had one girl that we worked with and got her up for the role and she did ok (didn't throw anyone out at 2b) but by the end of the season had had enough of it. we had other girls rotating thru that spot to try it but none of them took to it.

I'm looking forward to the challenge, it's just that with our limited time and resources, it will be a challenge.(I hope my employer understands)

 

[Lozza]

I guess I've been lucky with my littlies, as I've got about four different kids who want to catch and beg to do so. It's getting them OUT of there that is the problem for us!

We have the leave on release rule as well and I think that's the best. I think there are ways of making it easier for the kids, without changing how the game is played. So we have players who run if the third strike is dropped, but we don't have the out if the runner is on first still. (we are changing it next year so they can only advance to first and no further) It's also generally agreed that you don't steal past second after a certain point when you're ahead.

But teaching kids something they'll have to change when they get older is hurting them. By teaching them to leave when the ball reaches the plate, you're not teaching them softball.

 

[chinamigarden]

I don't think teaching kids something different they they will do when they move up is going to hurt them. We add onto skills and techniques all the time. When they are 8 we are telling them to always get in front of a groundball, at 12 we are showing girls how run around the ball or which balls to backhand, so they can make a better throw. Its not going to be that hard to reteach them when they move up, you can always teach a more aggressive maneuver, its harder to go in the other direction.

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

Sorry, this is a long post, but its our local rec league's rules for the 10U age. Our league uses the ASA rulebook, but tweaks some rules to fit the level of ability we have come to expect.


Muscatine Girls' Softball Association
Bantam League Rules
PHILOSOPHY: This league's philosophy is to develop the fundamental skills of beginning ball players. The
main focus of this league should be to foster the girls’ love and enjoyment of the game, while at the
same time introducing a competitive philosophy. Winning and losing should be emphasized but not at
a win at any cost attitude.
The following rules will apply to the Bantam League. These rules will take precedence over conflicting ASA or
other MGSA rules.
1. ROSTERS/SUBSTITUTIONS - The entire roster will bat with open substitution. Each player must play a
minimum of three innings in the field. This applies to both regular season and tournament play.
2. TIME LIMIT - The time limit for games will be 1 hour, 30 minutes for the Bantam League. No new inning will
start after the time limit has expired except in the case of a tie game. For purposes of this rule, a new inning
starts as soon as the third out of the preceding inning has been made.
3. STEALING - Stealing will be allowed. Runners starting at first or second base are entitled to steal one base
per pitch. They may be put out while between bases. They may not steal home, but can be put out while
between third and home.
4. DROPPED THIRD STRIKE – The Batter may not advance to first base if the catcher drops the third strike.
The batter will be declared out.
5. BASE ON BALLS – The Batter who receives a base on balls cannot advance past first base. If they
advance beyond the one base, they will be returned to the correct base after the play is completed. If a
steal attempt by another runner occurs during a walk to the batter and the defense makes a play on
the runner, it will be considered a new play and the batter-runner may attempt to advance to second
base with liability to be put out after passing first base.

6. BASES LOADED WALK or Hit By Pitch– No batter will be allowed to advance to first base on a walk
or when hit by pitch if the bases are loaded. After the fourth ball or immediately following the hit by
pitch, the batters’ coach will pitch to her until she hits a fair ball or strikes out swinging. The
number of pitches allowed by the coach to his player after the fourth ball by the opposing pitcher
will be three (3). The umpire will not call balls or strikes when the coach pitches, rather, the umpire
will only count three pitches after which the batter will be considered out if she does not hit. The
batter AND RUNNERS will be allowed only two (2) bases on a hit in this situation. If a player is hit by
a coach pitched ball she WILL NOT be allowed to advance to first base. The pitch will not count as
one of the coach pitches. The umpire will simply declare it a dead ball.
7. BATTER HIT BY A PITCH - If a player is hit by a pitched ball that strikes the ground before hitting the
player, she WILL NOT be allowed to advance to first base. The pitch will be called a ball. The umpire
will declare it a dead ball.
8. 5 RUN RULE - A team is allowed to score only 5 runs in an inning, during the first 3 innings. The fifth run in
an inning ends the inning for the team at bat. This rule applies to both regular season and city tournament
play, but only the first 3 innings of any game.
9. BALL SIZE & PITCHING DISTANCE - An 11" ball will be used. The pitching distance will be 35 feet.
10. OUTFIELDERS - Four outfielders will be used. All outfielders must be positioned in the grass.
11. HELMETS - Helmets with NACSAE approved face masks and chin straps must be worn when the ball is in
play. Only when play is dead may helmets be removed. Failure to comply will result in the runner being
called out. (This policy is in accordance with the ASA rulebook.)
12. JEWELRY - Positively NO JEWELRY will be allowed except small post earrings in ears recently pierced.
but must be taped over. Any player displaying jewelry items (other than the exception) on their person will
not be allowed to play.
13. UNIFORMS - A full uniform must be worn at all games. This includes the jersey, tucked in, stirrups (if
provided) worn over long socks and shoes. Pants may be long or short but all team members must
be wearing same color.
14. INTENTIONAL WALK - No intentional walks allowed.
15. NORMAL PARTICIPATION - Normal participation rules apply to the city tournament.

I think you have some good rules in place for your league. But my question is why do you have coach pitch as an option in 10U? Even in 8U, we only have coach pitch for half the season and then its all kid pitch (with walks). It not only gives the players experience pitching but also the batters to face live windmill pitching. Your kids in Iowa are just as capable of starting to learn to pitch at 7 and 8 years old as kids in Florida, CA, etc. Having to still face coach pitch from 5 - 10 years old is just mind-boogling to me.

 

[MsDinosaur]

In our rec league:
8U coach / machine pitch: can take a lead at pitch release but no stealing.
10u: can take a lead at release. Can steal 3rd but not 2nd or home. If you make an overthrow trying to get a runner stealing 3rd she can not advance to home.
12u: lead at release and steal any base.

I think this lets us teach the skills at an appropriate age while preventing the game from getting out of hand. The girls learn to take leads early. In 10U they can start stealing and the catcher can try to make a play without too much risk.

Remember rec league is also supposed to be fun and having girls steal around the bases is not very fun IMO.

Our 8U also didn't allow stealing. Which was generally fine. It was a tad strange at the end of the season when we went to the C tournament which did allow stealing. Our girls on base were a little confused at first, but soon learned to run. There wasn't enough time for our catchers to suddenly learn to throw to the bases though. It was fun, but we were really only competitive against other the rec league teams in the tourney. The regular 8U C teams all beat us easily.

At 10U our rec allowed leads at release and steals of 2nd and 3rd, but not home. What this meant was: every single turned into a girl standing on third after the next two pitches. I think your rec's rule might have been better in that it would require putting the ball in play or drawing multiple walks before a girl would be in scoring position. --As you say, a steal fest isn't very fun.

I don't know about the rec's 12U rules, my DD left before then. She had so much fun at those end-of-the-season C tournaments, she decided she wanted to play comp ball instead of rec.