Practicing power and speed before accuracy

[tojo]

tojo...honestly it would not matter to me either way....I know you most always take issue with me, and most (90%)of the times, I have learned from it....

Think I'll sneak this on this thread, where only the most astute trolls will find it.

The issue with threads always getting shut down is getting old. tojo if you could just call me a _______, and be done with it, it would be less time consuming, and the newbies would be able to learn faster. I could take it.... But there are women and children on here I hope> I know mine are. Thru this site, I have been able to teach DD to get her own click (pun intended) of advisers, independent of me. She uses FB, and has some of the best resources in the country that she can message (like our PM), and get answers in real time. She can form consensuses and even override me.

I'll finish this in edit: Got to go defend my logic...lol

How did I get thrown in to this. The only post I responded to was when GoingDeep called me a Lady. He later said he was thinking of Jojo. I don't close threads. That is up to administrators. I don't know what you are referring to in this post.

 

[Perfect Circle]

How did I get thrown in to this. The only post I responded to was when GoingDeep called me a Lady. He later said he was thinking of Jojo. I don't close threads. That is up to administrators. I don't khow what you are referring to in this post.

I wrote we almost agreed yesterday... GoingDeep made a mistake about Gender. I was going to write about how we need like, dislike, and dah buttons, so that people would quite using Thanks to chime & encourage smart alex. If you could have a choice on one of the 3 anonymously, then a person would get feedback on question or answer. Then I think there would be less post shut down. I'll get on that later... been busy today. Sorry about getting you involved tojo.

But that thread that got shut down for over marketing too much. As usual it was spurred on by the only option...The Thanks. If we would get invaded by spam...and people could just dislike, or like I think it wouldn't catapult into an inflamed argument, and have the post shut down. If it is spam then I'm sure they would have so many dislikes so fast that they would just exit without all the fuss. IMO

I didn't get a chance to weigh in on the Last Closed Thread thing because of it. One is without a doubt the best exsample of Dad PC. The other is the best exsample of personal ability, proven this year. Both are awesome!!! Both don't need advertizing or defending...especially with just a Thanks click. I have researched both very intensely !!! IMHO based on my needs at the time, a 9 year old. I'd take the latter, because of one sentence that I had seen proven to me by my DD for the last 4 years. "There is no gender gap" She was tons the best over any other T-Ball player, 3 years in a row. So its was that simple. Its all in what you believe.

 

[Perfect Circle]

Perfect Circle, do you have ADHD? I don't understand anything you post.

Yes... Attentive Dad Helping Daughter. Had her read it, she understood it, and asked why you can't. I told her you were probably into 8u, and are like her old coach. DD is a spot pitcher, and catches the wildest development projects.

 

[chinamigarden]

So when do you teach them to pitch faster? Is it after they have mastered putting the (relative) fastball where they want it. Or is it after they have learned a couple of other pitches? So when do they learn to throw it faster?

I think this is one of those which end of the egg do you crack arguments, When my dd started we were told speed before accuracy and for us that seemed to work. So does that mean its the best and only way to go? I don't know for sure. What I do know is that one local girl started pitching the same time as my dd, she was a "spot" pitcher and she took lesson upon lesson. Can throw a multitude of pitches that break. My dd was a flame thrower, and has taken zero private lessons, while the batters have caught up to her she can still throw it by many of them and has learned to put the ball on the corners and has 1 breaking pitch. Now that they are in HS together, last year my dd had some games where walks were a problem, while the other girl didn't walk anyone.

Of course its hard to walk anyone while playing third base but its true she doesn't walk anyone.

 

[Perfect Circle]

Of course its hard to walk anyone while playing third base but its true she doesn't walk anyone.

Exactly... I think you got it... DD gave up a HR last weekend...set back. So both have worst case. So where else does your DD play when not pitching? Third is a good place to rest when you got an Ace, to get ready for the inning your going to pitch.

When do you teach them to pitch faster? Is it after they have mastered putting the (relative) fastball where they want it. Or is it after they have learned a couple of other pitches? So when do they learn to throw it faster?

not sure if you are asking me, But I plan on doing it when she is in 14U and has peaked her growth Cylce. She has a real shot at being 6' & symmetrical. Playing SS & Catcher and #4 pitcher is plenty wear and tear, experience & recognition for 10U. I would never try to teach it until she learned score keeping, and pitching charts. When DD catches, she doesn't walk out to the mound, she just keeps throwing it to the base where the runners are. That slows pitcher, and focuses the team on the most pressing issue. I really believe that the speed fixation is only masking the underlying issue of the fear of putting the ball in play.

 

[Dana Marque]

Hmmm, please don't take this like I'm trying to attack you. The wrist snaps are pointless. Ask your DD's coach why they have her doing them. If they tell you "to strengthen the wrist" or "to product a faster/harder snap/more spin", I think I would consider a different coach. There are NO muscles in the wrist. Not one. You cannot "strengthen" tendons. They way you get more spin on the ball is strong fingers and a fast arm whip. She would be better off sitting and holding a weight plate, flat side out, in her fingers. It will strengthen her grip and the forearm muscles that assist with it.

And if you want strong legs, the last thing you want to do is run. Running catabolizes the muscle in your legs. When you run out of glycogen, it will eat the very muscle you are trying to build. If you want strong legs, do plyometrics, or resistance training. Squats, deadlifts, lunges. She is a girl. She will never look like a bodybuilder unless you also give her steroids. Explosive movements will go a long way to build explosive strength.

As far as saying a kid isn't ready to pitch in a game until she is at a certain strike/ball percentage, well, a kid doesn't have to throw strikes to strike a kid out at that age. If she is throwing hard, they will swing at "not strikes". How many young children are going to be satisfied to practice and practice and practice until some vague standard of readiness before they ever see the circle? Not many. They also have to learn that it isn't failure unless you quit trying to get it right. The only way to measure that is to put her in that situation.

My kid, for her first two years of pitching, would look like complete crap during at least half her practices. But when you put her in a game, she was measurably better than at practice. I think a game situation really helps a young pitcher to focus more clearly on the job at hand.

Thank you crystlemc.... Squats and lunges are also suggested by her PC... I've actually just signed her up for kids fitness thing and explained my daughters goals... They work on all sports and even have a pitcher who is going to hofstra next year... Another one of their students plays for hofstra... she is a very good pitcher for her age, can field her position well, and even hits pretty well... The only thing I have an issue with is her running to first base... She knows she is not fast either and when we play where pitcher can get a runner, everyone jumps on it. Our goal is to correct that - so either way, she's running!!! Well - learning to run.. She is only 11 so we try to limit the weights for now per her pediatrition.. and when it comes to explosive strength, we practice our push out every chance she can - whether in the food store walking, in the kitchen talking to me, while jumping to her homework, etc. she's my little push off...

I'm not sure what a plymetric or a deadlift is... As long as it doesn't require weights, I'm be curious to know... I'm here to learn!!!

 

[crystlemc]

The definition of plyometrics is "jump training". Basically, you jump over things, up onto high things, high into the air.

Plyometrics Workout For Beginners | The Art of Manliness

This is a pretty good article. No weights required.

A deadlift is a weight lifting move.

Also, look for youtube videos on proper running form. Good form goes a long way toward increasing running speed. My 13yo used to be so slow, you could time her home to first with a calendar. Now, she's in somewhere between 3.2-3.4. That was from just fixing her form.

 

[chinamigarden]

Exactly... I think you got it... DD gave up a HR last weekend...set back. So both have worst case. So where else does your DD play when not pitching? Third is a good place to rest when you got an Ace, to get ready for the inning your going to pitch.



not sure if you are asking me, But I plan on doing it when she is in 14U and has peaked her growth Cylce. She has a real shot at being 6' & symmetrical. Playing SS & Catcher and #4 pitcher is plenty wear and tear, experience & recognition for 10U. I would never try to teach it until she learned score keeping, and pitching charts. When DD catches, she doesn't walk out to the mound, she just keeps throwing it to the base where the runners are. That slows pitcher, and focuses the team on the most pressing issue. I really believe that the speed fixation is only masking the underlying issue of the fear of putting the ball in play.

I don't think you get it, the girl who doesn't walk anyone only plays third base because she never developed the ability to pitch fast enough. So of course she doesn't walk anyone, she doesn't pitch.

My dd plays where ever they want her to when she doesn't pitch. She is lefthanded so third base is sort of out. But in the last 12 months she has played all the OF positions, SS, 1st and catcher. On top of pitching more then half the games she played. her best position (when she isn't pitching) is probably 1st.

Do you really think learning how to keep score is more important then learning how to gain speed on your pitches?

If my dd's catcher didn't get the ball back to her right away (unless there was an actual play) it would throw her off her game. She wants the ball and she wants to pitch it, right now. Not in a minute, but right now.

Not really sure what you mean by the speed fixation and the fear of putting the ball in play.

 

[JAD]

I am a parent/coach and have been my daughters primary pitching "coach" since she was 10 and is now in her first year of college ball. I admit to making more than my fair share of "mistakes" but WE did the best we could with what we had which means youtube, pitching aids and as many lessons and clinics we could afford to attend (which is not very many by comparison to some other pitchers she has competed against and beat)....that being said I have been working with my daughters high school "successor" and she is extremely raw but a strong and dedicated kid. To my question: I have seen it said on some pitching videos that power and speed should be taught before accuracy. the argument being that its easier to find accuracy after speed vs trying to find speed after focusing on accuracy. I have been helping this kid with the basics...stride, snap, timing, etc and she is showing some good progress but we need to begin transition to getting some power and speed along with accuracy of a greater degree.
I am stumbling to get this out clearly for your opinion but would appreciate any input. I have been using alot of what I have read here in my daughters continued progress and will incorporate it in my workings with the kid I am working with now.

How quickly does she need to be 'game ready'? If she is going to be the #1 pitcher on her high school team next month, I would suggest learning to throw strikes. If you have 6 months or more, I would suggest learning the proper mechanics, which will lead to throwing hard, then worry about accuracy. She will need to practice 3-4 times/week during the 6 months if she wants to be able to throw hard with accuracy.

 

[Perfect Circle]

Here was my answer to OP

But I plan on doing it when she is in 14U and has peaked her growth Cycle. Right or wrong??? but its what I'm doing...

Here is a good answer...Right or wrong??? But I can agree with the practice schedule, and his understanding of the question, in terms of a timeline.

How quickly does she need to be 'game ready'? If she is going to be the #1 pitcher on her high school team next month, I would suggest learning to throw strikes. If you have 6 months or more, I would suggest learning the proper mechanics, which will lead to throwing hard, then worry about accuracy. She will need to practice 3-4 times/week during the 6 months if she wants to be able to throw hard with accuracy.

My point was, there is the realities of the game. If in six mo...April practices, your speed pitcher can't throw batting practice...or your spot pitcher is getting hammered by the team.... your going to need a mix.

I don't think you get it, the girl who doesn't walk anyone only plays third base because she never developed the ability to pitch fast enough. So of course she doesn't walk anyone, she doesn't pitch.

I got it... the dig, just put a positive fact on it. IMO pitchers most generally are the best athletes. 3rd is less running than SS, if your team lives in the loser brackets, and you know your going to be in pitching one of the #4 games that day.

Do you really think learning how to keep score is more important then learning how to gain speed on your pitches?

Yes... score book, pitching charts, and batting charts. Not to turn this in to a catching thread, but I want her aware of why the pitches are called, that she signals. With the hopes that she will get to call them, first as a catcher, then ultimately as a pitcher...in pitching practice, I taught her to shake off every call as she holds hands w/ ball in glove to her side, before she collects. It is always a no. I have her watch, the batters stance when catching...open, closed, up in box...ect. I have her watch the batters elbow, and get the signal when she is on shortstop.

(unless there was an actual play)

Everytime a runner takes a lead off, it can be an actual play. This is kinda new to us too. I think, it was just because we got beat in the big game, and HC was ticked. I seen it as slowing the WB pitcher down, by keeping the ball in the hands of the best players. I can see the timeline the OP is asking for. I would hope we all want our DD's playing post HS. Some pitchers just need to slow down, some need to slow down a couple years.

Not really sure what you mean by the speed fixation and the fear of putting the ball in play.

In the interest of time, and hijacking the OP's thread, let me suggest that you start a thread & call it : "speed fixation" or "putting the ball in play". Then you can host your question, and get lots more perspectives, than just mine. You'll be able to get your thanks up if you thank everyone that stays on topic. It will keep you busy. Then you can slow down, by just not responding to the off topic posters.