Pitching what do you see?

[osagedr]

The HE finish I see in the video is forced and not a "true" HE where the pitcher swings the arm free from the body through the power line, leading with the thumb and forcing the ball down with a "snap" finish and HE. An IR pitcher on DD's team does the same thing as the pitcher in this video; actually uses IR/BI but has an HE finish to placate the idiots who tell her she "Has to have a follow through!!!!!!" In the video this pitcher's finish IMO is not hurting anything. If she's throwing 61 with several pitches then hey what more do you want?

Tiny thing; just looking at the plant foot angle pretty much 90 degrees and wondering about the impact on knee over time. You see a lot more like 45 out of many pitchers, and Ueno (and other Japanese hurlers as I understand it) point almost directly toward the plate.

Chicken wing? No way - if you watch lots of great pitchers the elbow comes out like that after contact with the body. It is where it is supposed to be when it is supposed to be there, IMO. The elbow comes out after release, not during so no chicken wing as far as I'm concerned.

Great looking pitcher! Wish my 13 year old had those mechanics but we are working on it and hopefully will get there.

 

[ez_softball]

Some really good help in this thread from the other posters. To me it looks like your daughter is a great pitcher that could use some tweaks to obtain her full potential.

Her lower half is seriously not optimized. IME fixing this issue will be hard work for her and it will be frustrating at times. Depending on your daughters athleticism she will probably have timing issues for a little while. Her lower and upper will have to be "synced" again and this takes some time for most players. I think that fixing the lower half (I always start from the ground up) will fix some of the upper half stuff.

IMO her upper looks decent. You've already gotten the pointers from other posters on what I see so, I would follow their advice. Again, if it were me I would start with the lower half and move up. The good thing is that the end of her arm circle has decent whip from her IR.

You have people in this thread talking about the "chicken wing" and I think you need to define it better so, that we are all talking about the same thing. Is it the "acted" HE at the follow-through, is it the bent throwing arm at 12 in her arm circle, is it the swimming arm on her glove hand, or is it something else altogether? Identify what exactly the PC is trying to "fix".

 

[Ken Krause]

I have a pitching student who had the same issue in the third quadrant of the circle (for a lefty like this one, 12:00 to 3:00). She would be fine going up, but as she started down she'd turn her elbow out so it faced behind her instead of down, and then would push the ball all the way through the back side of the circle. With a lot of hard work she has almost erased it. Still has a bit of a turn for a from what would be 1:00 to 2:00 here but then gets it corrected.

What we've done to address it is pretty much shut her down on pitching full out until it's fixed. It's really difficult for pitchers to feel, and hard to see at full speed. Instead, she worked on a few different drills to rewrite her mechanics.

One was to stand next to a wall with the side of her hand closest to her little finger touching the wall, then make circles keeping the edge of her hand on the wall until she is going into release. Started slowly at first, then picked up speed as she got used to it.

Another was to take a small football and hold it by the end. She then would go through her arm circle trying to keep the other end of the ball pointed up for as long as she could. Then throw the football, trying to get it to tumble end over end.

The drill I think was most effect for her was to stand with her back to a backstop, take an easy stride forward (more of a step), open and the release the ball backwards at the top of the circle. You have to watch that one, though, because it's easy for them to turn their hands around to throw the ball back. That's not what you want. You want it released so it rolls out over the fingertips with the palm of the hand still facing up/forward.

In addition to those drills, we also had a few lessons where all she did was stand there and work on her arm circle, to keep the elbow from turning out. I would shoot video to spot-check her since the better she gets at staying right the harder it is to see her doing it wrong. When she could keep a good arm position just using her arm in a stationary position we moved into using her feet, slowly at first and then faster.

I will also add that this is a very, very dedicated young pitcher. Her dad told me last night she does the drills every day, half hour in the morning, half hour in the evening, in addition to going to pitch with him. She wants to get it corrected because she is aware with her current very slight build she can't get away with anything sapping speed out of her motion. She also knows that if she can fix it now, when she does fill out and get stronger she'll be in a much better position to take advantage of it.

She isn't there 100% yet. Still a bit of flutter, but much, much better than a couple of months ago. I told her last night I'm declaring her to be in "remission" for this issue. We won't say cured yet, but on the path.

 

[jsnfltn]

She is being taught follow thru (HE), is this wrong?? Not a lot of pitching coaches around here and most teach straight arm in the windmill all the way they until release followed by follow thru.


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[KCPhoto]

She is being taught follow thru (HE), is this wrong?? Not a lot of pitching coaches around here and most teach straight arm in the windmill all the way they until release followed by follow thru.


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Yes, it is wrong, but your daughter is not doing it. What we call hello elbow does not include internal rotation of the arm at release that your daughter has.

Some pitchers, to satisfy coaches that don't understand this, will add an arm extension after release to satisfy them. This won't hurt her arm or pitching.

Real hello elbow will lead to arm injuries, slower pitch speeds and shorter pitching career.

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[GunnerShotgun]

Yes, it is wrong, but your daughter is not doing it. What we call hello elbow does not include internal rotation of the arm at release that your daughter has.

Some pitchers, to satisfy coaches that don't understand this, will add an arm extension after release to satisfy them. This won't hurt her arm or pitching.

Real hello elbow will lead to arm injuries, slower pitch speeds and shorter pitching career.

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As the parent of a pitcher it is important that you understand what KCPhoto is saying here. You need to understand this in great detail so you are informed when coaches are pitching coaches try and make changes.

 

[Classof2020]

Yes, it is wrong, but your daughter is not doing it. What we call hello elbow does not include internal rotation of the arm at release that your daughter has.

Some pitchers, to satisfy coaches that don't understand this, will add an arm extension after release to satisfy them. This won't hurt her arm or pitching.

Real hello elbow will lead to arm injuries, slower pitch speeds and shorter pitching career.

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I think this is misleading because his daughter is doing some of it and fighting doing more of it. He should totally read about it on here and understand so he can help her refine her form. All that being said if my DD was hitting 61 on an accurate gun I might not be too concerned with tearing everything down and starting over . . .

 

[djcarter1966]

The "chicken wing" that needs addressing is the 12 to 3 motion were the hand and ball are rotated down and then back up again. If you could show it to her it might be interesting because at 12 and 3 she has the hand and ball positioned correctly but in between 12 and 3 she rotates it back and forth.

As I eluded to initially her drive needs help because opens almost instantly jsn see if you can get her to look more like this in her drive where everything is going forward especially the back foot then have the front foot land at about a 45 degree angle.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

I think this is misleading because his daughter is doing some of it and fighting doing more of it. He should totally read about it on here and understand so he can help her refine her form. All that being said if my DD was hitting 61 on an accurate gun I might not be too concerned with tearing everything down and starting over . . .

I would agree that an overhaul may not be necessary but they need to be informed. It's possible she has 65 in her arm but poor mechanics are limiting her.

It's not that you can't pitch with hello elbow (not saying she is) but it's that you are limiting your potential and putting yourself at risk of injury.

 

[djcarter1966]

I think this is misleading because his daughter is doing some of it and fighting doing more of it. He should totally read about it on here and understand so he can help her refine her form. All that being said if my DD was hitting 61 on an accurate gun I might not be too concerned with tearing everything down and starting over . . .

BUT if you were going to do it now would be the time!!

I would address the lower half better forward drive and no back foot anchor and front foot sideways (this feels like a drill gone bad where she was standing sideways practicing) and the upper half with concentrated drills like Ken suggested or at a minimum 12 o'clock K drills not letting her turn the ball back and forth.

A dedicated couple months some reps in fall ball more practice over the winter and I think she can do this.