Pitching Rules and their application

[02Crush]

So after reading and commenting on many posts here. I am gonna take a stab at a topic that has troubled me as a coach.
I feel pitching is one of the harder skills to develop in Fastpitch. As a coach I work hard to learn what it takes to pitch well rather then just depend on the PC to teach the players. When I see them doing something I think could be illegal in their motion I get with the parents and player (and even the PC) asking them to keep an eye on it and work to correct it.

When we play I see crow hopping, steps back to go forward, constant stopping and starting of pitches, starting with one foot on the pitchers plate, immediate starts (not 1-10 seconds to take signals), turning to make throws from the pitching rubber without stepping back first and other things.

Am I not understanding the rules? Why are umpires not calling these things?
And why when I ask about it do they tell me to let it go b/c of the age of our play (10U).

As an example: I had one umpire tell me that he was not going to "penalize" a young player who was the teams only pitcher over "one little rule". This pitcher was stepping back then taking two steps towards the batter before releasing the ball. My argument was she was gaining 2 extra feet on the batter thus an illegal advantage of speed and timing. It went on deaf ears.

I suppose I need to understand b/c I want to either stick with defending my players for doing the right things by bringing up consistent rules violations of other teams and asking for a call
or
Just drop it and move on b/c I am never going to get a call and that is just how it is.
This seems to be the most consistent set of rules avoided in my age down here.

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

You bring up a good topic. Possible reasons for inconsistency in enforcing pitching rules.

First off, I dont' really think most umpires, especially ones working the younger age groups, truly understand all of the rules about pitching in the pre-delivery and delivery phases of the pitch. For example, during one tight game I remember well, baserunner on 3rd, the other team's pitcher started her pitching motion and stopped. Umpire called an IP and awarded a ball to the batter but did not allow my baserunner to move up one base and score? Clearly he did not understand the rule. My protest fell on deaf ears.

Secondly, if you only have one umpire working the game, its more difficult for them to see illegal pitching mechanics from behind home plate, such as leaping and crow-hopping (i.e. it's much easier to see illegal pitches from your vantage point in the dugouts). Also, from behind home plate, the umpire is preoccupied with calling balls, strikes, keeping track of the count, watching the batter in the batters box, shifting catchers, passed balls, wild pitches, baserunners, etc. There is a lot going on and proper mechanics and pitching is just one of many things they are keeping track of.

Third, I think umpires realize that most of the players have only pitched for a couple of years and are still learning all the rules and mechanics of the position. So they probably think they are doing the players a favor by not calling every IP.

Fourth, calling IP and advancing baserunners really slows down the game, rattles these young girls in the circle, and really takes away from the game.

Fifth, some may feel that there is little or no advantage to allowing illegal pitches so they overlook them or have a high threshold for enforcement of the rules.

With that said, I think it is important for coaches, parents, and PCs to teach proper pitching mechanics to kids during their development so that the player understands the rules for the position and will not have to rely on whether or not the umpire is going to enforce the rules from one tournament to the next.

 

[tcannizzo]

I feel pitching is one of the harder skills to develop in Fastpitch. As a coach I work hard to learn what it takes to pitch well rather then just depend on the PC to teach the players. When I see them doing something I think could be illegal in their motion I get with the parents and player (and even the PC) asking them to keep an eye on it and work to correct it.

This is one thing that has always amazed me about PCs. Very few of them bother to emphasize proper AND LEGAL mechanics.

When we play I see crow hopping, steps back to go forward, constant stopping and starting of pitches, starting with one foot on the pitchers plate, immediate starts (not 1-10 seconds to take signals), turning to make throws from the pitching rubber without stepping back first and other things.

Am I not understanding the rules? Why are umpires not calling these things?
And why when I ask about it do they tell me to let it go b/c of the age of our play (10U).

As an example: I had one umpire tell me that he was not going to "penalize" a young player who was the teams only pitcher over "one little rule". This pitcher was stepping back then taking two steps towards the batter before releasing the ball. My argument was she was gaining 2 extra feet on the batter thus an illegal advantage of speed and timing. It went on deaf ears.

I suppose I need to understand b/c I want to either stick with defending my players for doing the right things by bringing up consistent rules violations of other teams and asking for a call
or
Just drop it and move on b/c I am never going to get a call and that is just how it is.
This seems to be the most consistent set of rules avoided in my age down here.

Can't attest to your understanding of the rules, but the items you have referenced above would and should be IPs.

As for "young players", we generally do not call IPs at 10-12U Rec levels. We have even had some really low-level 14-16 Rec where we would let it go, especially when they walk 4 out of 5 batters. Typically the coaches of both teams or the league administrators will be in agreement with this.

But in a 10-U competitive tournament, then they should be called.

Don't know what to tell you about game management when you see it happening and it not being called, except remain calm and to be logical.

 

[ctfastpitch]

As an opposing coach, I would never get too worked up over IP's at a 10U & 12U level, unless it was giving the pitcher an unfair advantage (like a significant crow-hop). Calling a young kid on it during a game serves no other purpose than to rattle her, and mess with her confidence, since there is very little chance she will be able to correct it on the spot. At that age, I want her to be throwing pitches that my batters can get in play.

On the occasions where I did see it, I would point it out to the ump, not asking him to call it, but to mention it to the opposing coach/parent so the kid can be coached to correct it, because it WILL get called as she moves up.

As far as PC's go, I would agree that many of them don't focus on the legality of the motions. I think at that age, a lot of them are focusing on the body mechanics of the delivery (hopefully legal body mechanics...no crow hops). They probably figure that the non-mechanical subtleties of the rules will get worked out as they advance.

 

[Comp]

At the 10U rec level, you are damned if you do, damned if you dont. If you do call them, the kid has no idea of how to fix what they are doing wrong and the game will never end. If you dont call them and tell the coach to work on making her legal in practice, they never do and the next time you see the kid she is still doing exactly what she did before. Until they are called illegal, the coaches have no incentive to make them pitch correctly.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

If you let it go, at all, it is awfully hard to correct it. They get so used to pitching that way, that they almost never change.

Some rules, do let the pitcher take a step back.

 

[Momo'sDad]

You bring up a good topic. Possible reasons for inconsistency in enforcing pitching rules.

First off, I dont' really think most umpires, especially ones working the younger age groups, truly understand all of the rules about pitching in the pre-delivery and delivery phases of the pitch. For example, during one tight game I remember well, baserunner on 3rd, the other team's pitcher started her pitching motion and stopped. Umpire called an IP and awarded a ball to the batter but did not allow my baserunner to move up one base and score? Clearly he did not understand the rule. My protest fell on deaf ears.

Secondly, if you only have one umpire working the game, its more difficult for them to see illegal pitching mechanics from behind home plate, such as leaping and crow-hopping (i.e. it's much easier to see illegal pitches from your vantage point in the dugouts). Also, from behind home plate, the umpire is preoccupied with calling balls, strikes, keeping track of the count, watching the batter in the batters box, shifting catchers, passed balls, wild pitches, baserunners, etc. There is a lot going on and proper mechanics and pitching is just one of many things they are keeping track of.

Third, I think umpires realize that most of the players have only pitched for a couple of years and are still learning all the rules and mechanics of the position. So they probably think they are doing the players a favor by not calling every IP.

Fourth, calling IP and advancing baserunners really slows down the game, rattles these young girls in the circle, and really takes away from the game.

Fifth, some may feel that there is little or no advantage to allowing illegal pitches so they overlook them or have a high threshold for enforcement of the rules.

With that said, I think it is important for coaches, parents, and PCs to teach proper pitching mechanics to kids during their development so that the player understands the rules for the position and will not have to rely on whether or not the umpire is going to enforce the rules from one tournament to the next.

I'm not sure how the example you referenced is an IP.

I agree that watching for IPs is low priority when there's only 1 umpire, which what we have during our league seasons. In our tournaments, we've got 2 umpires, so while they'll watch for it and put the coaches on notice, I only saw 1 called this year. The coaches were berating the umpire until he was finally pressured into making a call. Those 2 coaches were out of control. Had it been my player, I probably would've had to give those women a look.

Ctfastpitch, I have to laugh whenever someone talks about a 9yo crow-hopping.

The best thing is for everyone to settle down and recognize that the overall progression is more fun to observe and be a part of when people aren't so uptight about Tuesday night league games between 9-10yo kids.

 

[Sweet Lou]

At the 10U rec level, you are damned if you do, damned if you dont. If you do call them, the kid has no idea of how to fix what they are doing wrong and the game will never end. If you dont call them and tell the coach to work on making her legal in practice, they never do and the next time you see the kid she is still doing exactly what she did before. Until they are called illegal, the coaches have no incentive to make them pitch correctly.

At rec we generally let it go unless the kid is dominating with the illegal mechanics - like throws hard and is using the illigal mechanics to get an advantage. But as coaches we generally let each other know between innings when we see it and ask that it be worked on at practice before the next game she is going to take the circle. Sort of with an eye to getting all the girls using proper delivery at least by season end. Then we have a pretty small rec league and most of the coaches know each other.

But if this was a tournament on Sunday. You can bet I'm asking the ump to call it. Saturday might depend on the attitude of the other team's coach and fans if it is worth pressing the issue. Some parents can be real jerks in the stands and it doesn't really inspire me to show sympathy to their pitcher who is using an illegal delivery. Petty for sure but hey I'll be honest about.

 

[tcannizzo]

At rec we generally let it go unless the kid is dominating with the illegal mechanics - like throws hard and is using the illigal mechanics to get an advantage.

Be very careful with using the "advantage" argument. There is NOTHING in any softball rule set that refers to "advantage".
Rather, I judge the level of play rec vs travel along with age to determine how strict things should be called.

If you are illegal, then you are illegal. "Advantage" doesn't mean anything to me.
In fact, many illegal mechanics, actually take away advantage from the pitcher.
Example, leaping. Many younger pitchers are guilty of leaping, but do not gain an advantage.
Why? When they push off PP, they go more vertical rather than fwd towards B.
They obviously have lost a lot of the inertia than they would have had if they didn't leave the ground.

If you are an obvious rookie, then you get some slack.
If you show skill, then you are going to get corrected.
At least by me.

 

[02Crush]

Thanks guys. Keep the perspectives coming. Especially those of an umpire as I am trying to determine how to deal with this as it is a common occurrence for me. We play Travel. If this were rec ball I would not even mention as we would've played each other often enough to discuss among coaches and correct in practice. But in travel ball we have encountered 9 year old's who pitch 40+ and 10 year old who pitch 45+. These players I reference are going to PC's and can pitch well. So at these speeds and level of play they should know better. That was why I raised the questions and expressed the frustration.

It is hard. You are playing for fun (which is defined differently by everyone) and for sport so being a jerk is not the goal. However playing against someone who does not have to abide within regulations does not seem right.