Pitching Rules and their application

[nanotech14]

I'm not sure how the example you referenced is an IP.

I agree that watching for IPs is low priority when there's only 1 umpire, which what we have during our league seasons. In our tournaments, we've got 2 umpires, so while they'll watch for it and put the coaches on notice, I only saw 1 called this year. The coaches were berating the umpire until he was finally pressured into making a call. Those 2 coaches were out of control. Had it been my player, I probably would've had to give those women a look.

Ctfastpitch, I have to laugh whenever someone talks about a 9yo crow-hopping.

The best thing is for everyone to settle down and recognize that the overall progression is more fun to observe and be a part of when people aren't so uptight about Tuesday night league games between 9-10yo kids.

The example given is a IP but not due to mech.,starting a pitch then stopping is a IP.That would be due to a young pitcher just being just that a young pitcher.But as far as some of what your saying,I know that you are also a inexperienced coach,and you will understand these things the longer you coach.If you dont try to teach them right now,then it is harder to change later.Before you start your"well it is just a Tuesday night league game",I also know that some of those girls might want to move to TB and then they have to fix their mech.

 

[ctfastpitch]

At the 10U rec level, you are damned if you do, damned if you dont. If you do call them, the kid has no idea of how to fix what they are doing wrong and the game will never end. If you dont call them and tell the coach to work on making her legal in practice, they never do and the next time you see the kid she is still doing exactly what she did before. Until they are called illegal, the coaches have no incentive to make them pitch correctly.

All very true, it's a tough call. I know it's a grey area, but at that age, my rough rule of thumb is that if I don't feel my team is being put at a disadvantage by it, I am not going to nit-pick it.

 

[chinamigarden]

The other side of this is the quality of the officials. From what I have seen the younger the teams you either get the least experienced umps, or ones who have been around for a long time and have never been any good. People want to know where coaches get these wild ideas about pitching rules and LBR violations, you will find it in 10u when the umps sometimes are making it up as they go along.

This isn't an ump rant either, 10U is usually where you find the least experienced in every spot. The players, the umps and the coaches all have a lot to learn. I have seen more coaches go ballistic on umps when a simple chat with a rule book would suffice. Typically as the teams age, the girls of course gain experience as do the coaches and you end up with better umps too. But even at 14u you find umps (and coaches) who have never learned a rule properly and have no idea how it is properly enforced.

As for PCs teaching kids the wrong way. It will always happen as long as parents are only focused on how fast Suzy throws. The parents should educate themselves and say "why is my dd taking a step back and 2 steps forward? Instead of my dd hit 45 on the gun yesterday(apparently with a running start)" how many parents walk up to a PC and say, I want you to teach my dd how to pitch within the rules, even if it costs her a few MPH now, vs how many say. We left her last PC because she wasn't get enough speed out of my dd, if we are going to pay you $50 per session we expect to see her pitch faster.

 

[quincy]

In Rec. ball I am done caring about IPs , regardless of the age group. Most Teams in DD’s League are actually classified as a “B” Travel Teams so someone can play word games if they want, it is rec. ball.

Even at the older age groups you see a wide variety of pitchers. Some pitching for the 1st time, looks like they just started pitching again, etc. Not a fair classification but looks like some teams and just trying to survive the season and have “Fun”. I am good with all that.

At the younger ages pitchers are all over the place. Bad instruction, just trying to figure it, trying to break a bad habit, trying something new, etc. For the most part the better pitchers more or less pitch legally.

I would think that even in 10U TB a lot of pitchers are trying to get some seasoning, how many innings can they have under their belt? Most Teams will have some 8 or 9 year olds that have never pitched in a game before.

Once they get to 12U TB I wish they would start calling IPs. If they cannot pitch correctly the player has a few choices. Come pitch in our League for a little while to sort the Issues out or stop pitching, there are other positions.

 

[Ajaywill]

This is a very touchy subject and opinions are across the board (no pun intended).

I agree with many things that have been said - 1 umpire, you're not going to get crow-hop or leaping calls, the PU behind the plate just can't see that. With two umpires, those violations can be seen. Rec level ball, the decision on whether to call and enforce the rule or just point it out to the pitcher and her coach and hope they work to correct it can be difficult and is often subject to the whim of the individual umpire.

Competitive level ball at all levels, the pitching rules need to be enforced, in my opinion. The IP may be the singular most controversial call an umpire has to make. I always train umpires that if you see an illegal pitch, call it! But you had better be darn sure it's illegal and be able to explain exactly what is illegal to the pitcher and her coach. In other words, know the rule and how to apply it!

My other frustration is pitching coaches. I know for a fact that some PCs around here will teach kids to pitch illegaly with the caveat that "it is never called, anyway." When you get one of these pitchers and an umpire that will call the illegal pitch, one of two things happen....either the pitcher will begin pitching legally, or she will fall apart because she doesn't know how to pitch legally.

 

[WinThemAll]

I agree with some, it depends on the level but officials need to address the issue with the coaches even if they do not call the IP. I find it very helpful when early in the year when umpires direct my attention to issues in a pitchers motion or other infractions. I have been known to ask them to please call it on my own pitchers. I also appreciate it when they ask the coach to come out and discuss the infraction with the pitcher and not just go up and start hassling the pitcher. I realize that they don't have to even discuss with a coach what they believe is wrong but I appreciate that they do not cause undo drama with a player that is under the age of 14. I have also told pitchers that if they do not work on fixing an illegal act then they will not pitch.

But I have also seen on more than one occasion where an umpire will nit-pick on a particular team, pitcher and tend to look the other way at the other team's pitcher. That is what set's my fanny-on-fire! And do not get me started on the ones that have no clue on what even is an IP.

Anyone with young boys who pitch? Just wondering if you find the same things in the younger boys' games?

 

[quincy]

Rules for the boys are a little less picky. Seems to be also to be an easier motion, all the players throw overhand all the time.

I am sure in 10 minutes 10 YOA DD could pitch a BB legally just would not be very good.

Calling balks can be interesting sometimes when someone is on base.

 

[Sweet Lou]

Rules for the boys are a little less picky. Seems to be also to be an easier motion, all the players throw overhand all the time.

I am sure in 10 minutes 10 YOA DD could pitch a BB legally just would not be very good.

Calling balks can be interesting sometimes when someone is on base.

Yeah very difficult to throw "an illegal pitch" in basbeabll. Balks can be tricky and comical though are rarely if ever called at anything below the high school level in my experience.

Though once I manged to hit a batter and balk him all the way around the bases. Probably why I was usually an outfielder.

 

[chinamigarden]

Yeah very difficult to throw "an illegal pitch" in basbeabll. Balks can be tricky and comical though are rarely if ever called at anything below the high school level in my experience.

Though once I manged to hit a batter and balk him all the way around the bases. Probably why I was usually an outfielder.

In LL baseball the boys can't take a lead off and can't leave the base until the ball has reached the plate. That eliminates the need for a balk rule, so in the younger ages unless the pitcher isn't on the pitching plate, there are no real issues to call.

 

[Ken Krause]

I used to care more about crow hopping and leaping as a team coach. But I find it usually doesn't offer any advantage so I don't much care anymore.

What was described in the original post is different to me, especially the part about walking forward. That's pretty obvious and not just "accidental." Stepping back is as well. I think an umpire has to call that. You're not doing a player any favors letting her get away with it, even at the younger levels. She has to learn not to do it ASAP.

Years ago, we were facing a team where the pitcher was walking forward off the rubber as described. I told my pitcher to just start from there, and if the umpire complains we'll say that's where the other pitcher is starting her pitch from so that's where we're starting. But the umpire never said a word about it. Same tournament an umpire made that same girl remove the face paint she was wearing. That was a crew that had some really screwed up priorities.