Pitching replant (crow hop)

[wheresmycar]

What does separating the hands have to do with crow hopping? Barnhill separates at the start of her backswing and never brings the hands back together.

Interestingly enough, the NCAA rules do not specifically state a "Crow hop" is illegal. The only reference to "Crow hop" in the NCAA rules is rule 10.5.5.

10.5.5 The pitcher is not allowed to hop or drag to a replant (crowhop), gain a second starting point and push off her pivot foot.

What constitutes a "second starting point"? Well, rule 10.3 states:

10.3 Start of the Pitch The pitch officially begins and cannot be discontinued once the hands have separated after coming together.

So, if your hands separate after pushing off the pitcher's plate, that would be a "Second starting point".

The NFHS rules are written a little differently, but I think the intent is the same as the NCAA rules. Which is why the NFHS training video is very consistent with the NCAA rules above.

I think Barnhill was likely called for illegal pitches mostly for leaping, or possibly for the "bearing weight" rule the NCAA added.

 

[ArmWhip]

According to the NFHS video a pitcher like Barnhill would not be illegal because she is replanting after her hands have separated. The video states that you can't replant if your hands haven't separated.

 

[The Man In Blue]

According to the NFHS video a pitcher like Barnhill would not be illegal because she is replanting after her hands have separated. The video states that you can't replant if your hands haven't separated.

Except NFHS doesn't allow a replant *period*. They have not adopted the "leaping allowed" rule. The only place a pitcher can push from is the pitcher's plate.

 

[ArmWhip]

Except NFHS doesn't allow a replant *period*. They have not adopted the "leaping allowed" rule. The only place a pitcher can push from is the pitcher's plate.

I'm confused by the video, they seemed to be saying that if you replanted before your hands separated it was illegal. Why the emphasis on the hands if the replant is illegal period?

 

[The Man In Blue]

I'm confused by the video, they seemed to be saying that if you replanted before your hands separated it was illegal. Why the emphasis on the hands if the replant is illegal period?

I'm glad you asked! [TMIB pulls out his portable lecturing podium]
I've seen that video floated around for years, and I've often been critical of it being used out of context. It's like only having the front of the headpiece ...

People tend to watch the wrong part because they are looking at the pitcher's feet. There are two points the video is making: 1) a crow hop does not have to be a literal hop -- it can happen without the foot ever leaving the ground (the drag and replant); 2) the hands are important because they cannot be together off of the pitcher's plate. The video is showing the hands together (meaning the pitch has not started) until the pivot foot illegally replants, then the hands come apart.

Breaking that down:

NFHS 2-16 defines a CROW HOP as "A crow hop is the replant of the pivot foot prior to delivering the pitch. The crow hop is an illegal pitch." Even though the word "hop" is there, there is no requirement for the foot to leave the ground. Pushing off from any place other than the pitcher's plate is a crow hop, regardless of how the pitcher got there.

NFHS 6-1-2a states "The pitch starts when the pitcher's hands separate after they have come together while the pivot foot is in contact with the pitcher's plate." What the video is trying to say is that it does not matter if the pitcher slid her foot, dragged her foot, or jumped out in front of the plate, if the hands are together she has NOT started her pitch (by definition) so it is illegal to be off the pitcher's plate.

So, part (a) is about the hands (and the pivot foot), so let's continue with rule 6-1-2 ...

Part (b) tells us what a pitcher's free foot can do: a pitcher can step backwards prior to the pitch starting (POP QUIZ: when does the pitch start?), but the step must be complete before the hands come apart. Once the hands separate, the pitcher can "take a step forward ... simultaneous with the delivery" (which would need to be with the free foot, not the pivot foot since the pivot foot cannot be replanted).

b. Any step back with the non-pivot foot must begin before the start of the pitch (6-1-2a). Once the pitch has started (the hands separate), the pitcher shall not take more than one step which must be forward, toward the batter and simultaneous with the delivery. EXCEPTION: When removing self from the pitcher’s position. (6-1-1f(2)) NOTE: “Toward” is interpreted as within or partially within the 24-inch length of the pitcher’s plate. (Figure 6-1)

Part (c) explains what the pivot foot can and cannot do, stating the pivot foot must remain in contact with the pitcher's plate until the hands come apart, and then must stay in contact with the ground (with an exception for a hole/trench) when coming off.

c. The pivot foot may remain in contact with or may push off and drag away from the pitching plate prior to the front foot touching the ground, as long as the pivot foot remains in contact with the ground and within the 24-inch length. If a hole has been created in front of the pitcher’s plate, the pivot foot may be no higher than the level plane of the ground. Pushing off with the pivot foot from a place other than the pitcher’s plate is illegal.

 

[radness]

This is the never ending topic LOL

I'm glad you asked! [TMIB pulls out his portable lecturing podium]
I've seen that video floated around for years, and I've often been critical of it being used out of context. It's like only having the front of the headpiece ...

People tend to watch the wrong part

People tend to watch the wrong part
Question of the day
How many people can simultaneously watch the feet and the hands at the same time?

How many people could honestly answer that question if they had to be on a jury LOL yikes
enjoy the day!

because they are looking at the pitcher's feet. There are two points the video is making: 1) a crow hop does not have to be a literal hop -- it can happen without the foot ever leaving the ground (the drag and replant); 2) the hands are important because they cannot be together off of the pitcher's plate. The video is showing the hands together (meaning the pitch has not started) until the pivot foot illegally replants, then the hands come apart.

Breaking that down:

NFHS 2-16 defines a CROW HOP as "A crow hop is the replant of the pivot foot prior to delivering the pitch. The crow hop is an illegal pitch." Even though the word "hop" is there, there is no requirement for the foot to leave the ground. Pushing off from any place other than the pitcher's plate is a crow hop, regardless of how the pitcher got there.

NFHS 6-1-2a states "The pitch starts when the pitcher's hands separate after they have come together while the pivot foot is in contact with the pitcher's plate." What the video is trying to say is that it does not matter if the pitcher slid her foot, dragged her foot, or jumped out in front of the plate, if the hands are together she has NOT started her pitch (by definition) so it is illegal to be off the pitcher's plate.

So, part (a) is about the hands (and the pivot foot), so let's continue with rule 6-1-2 ...

Part (b) tells us what a pitcher's free foot can do: a pitcher can step backwards prior to the pitch starting (POP QUIZ: when does the pitch start?), but the step must be complete before the hands come apart. Once the hands separate, the pitcher can "take a step forward ... simultaneous with the delivery" (which would need to be with the free foot, not the pivot foot since the pivot foot cannot be replanted).

b. Any step back with the non-pivot foot must begin before the start of the pitch (6-1-2a). Once the pitch has started (the hands separate), the pitcher shall not take more than one step which must be forward, toward the batter and simultaneous with the delivery. EXCEPTION: When removing self from the pitcher’s position. (6-1-1f(2)) NOTE: “Toward” is interpreted as within or partially within the 24-inch length of the pitcher’s plate. (Figure 6-1)

Part (c) explains what the pivot foot can and cannot do, stating the pivot foot must remain in contact with the pitcher's plate until the hands come apart, and then must stay in contact with the ground (with an exception for a hole/trench) when coming off.

c. The pivot foot may remain in contact with or may push off and drag away from the pitching plate prior to the front foot touching the ground, as long as the pivot foot remains in contact with the ground and within the 24-inch length. If a hole has been created in front of the pitcher’s plate, the pivot foot may be no higher than the level plane of the ground. Pushing off with the pivot foot from a place other than the pitcher’s plate is illegal.

 

[ArmWhip]

TMIB pulls out his portable lecturing podium

Ok, got it, thanks.

 

[jackfrost]

Her pivot foot clearly on the ground about 3 feet in front of the pitcher's plate. Not legal.

 

[jackfrost]

USA Softball Fastpitch rule 6A.3.J

 

[PharmerBrown]

View attachment 26996
Her pivot foot clearly on the ground about 3 feet in front of the pitcher's plate. Not legal.

Where would you like that foot to be??