Pitching mechanic Jr college pitchers

[Lozza]

Not only illegeal but illegal three or four times in the one motion. There was what, three raises of the foot once she started her motion? She also didn't start with both feet on the plate. That is elementary stuff.

 

[Jojo]

No one has attempted to change her because very few at the level ball she has played been able to hit her. She has been dominant....averages about 12 to 15 K's game. During the fall we played several D1 schools and they did a little better job. She beat a couple of D1 during the fall but I know they may have not played there starters. she does have some D1 loking at her for next year.

Pitching mid-60's with a great rise and screw is what got her that far. No matter what her mechanical issues are.
With that said, some of her illegal mechanical issues are also helping her.
I can see how she did not need to change or want to change.

I think if the D1 schools are looking at her, and are smart, they are going to have to look at how much making her legal is going to take away from her speed. Fixing some mechanical issues will get that speed back but it would take work, how much she wants to work at that is something they will have to consider.

 

[starsnuffer]

But, she is illegal.

What part of the country is she in?

This. She's actually illegal in 3 different ways. She steps back with her lead foot, taking it off the rubber before she pitches, this enables a "running start", and is illegal (legal in international, not in NCAA). She then does the Finch-replant of her pivot foot, stepping a few inches forward of the rubber and replanting before driving. She isn't Finch, she won't get away with this in D1. Then she does some sort of . . . thing. . . with her body that slightly resembles a leap (or maybe a spasm caused bythe onset of a zombification virus) and her rearmost appendage is off the ground at this point, clearly illegal.

She's basically doing a "walk through" when she's pitching. Have any pitcher do this drill and they will pick up significant speed. How she gets away with it is beyond me. That said, any improvements made would have to first offset the speed loss she'd see by actually being legal.

Sluggers is dead on about her arm motion and arm whip, which tied to the fact that she seems to be releasing the ball about 12 inches from the ground, likely attribute to the success she's seen.

I have a hard time believing a D1 school is interested in this kid. Straight out of high school and understanding that it would take a year or two of working with her I can understand it, but if she's already 2 years in there isn't a whole lot of useable time left for her after the problems are fixed.

-W

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

How does one get to the junior college level of pitching and not be called for an illegal pitch? I have seen IPs called in 8u all-star tournaments for much less egregious offenses than this women's pitching mechanics. I'm dead serious.

 

[coachdan]

But, she is illegal.

What part of the country is she in?

NC.......This season I have seen her get called for illegal pitch only about 3 times and all of them were for not having back foot on rubber, never for leap or crowhop....and agree she is illegal.

 

[starsnuffer]

How does one get to the junior college level of pitching and not be called for an illegal pitch? I have seen IPs called in 8u all-star tournaments for much less egregious offenses than this women's pitching mechanics. I'm dead serious.

It was only last year that the NCAA started clamping down on illegal pitching, although 3 years ago they were focused on the "pitching lane" and pitchers stepping far to one side of the rubber to throw a "breaking" pitch.

If you look at video of the Olympic pitchers, nearly all of them are illegal according to NCAA rules, some more apparently then others. With them as role-models, I think the better question is how we expect girls to actually be legal.

I hear you on the lower level tournaments though. I've had my own pitchers called illegal for much less then this many times. I think that when it comes down to it, the young pitchers are playing to learn and improve, they have plenty of time to "fix" their issues. At the NCAA level, clamping down on this suddenly could destroy the sport at that level (look at the Fowler disaster), and certainly at the international level no one wants to loose their heroes. Would you want to be the one to tell Jennie Finch to go back to the drawing board?

I do think the rules should be enforced. I also think there's room for improvement with the ways the rules are written, but no matter how they are written, they need to be held up as the expectation and the norm rather then the exception.

-W

 

[FPump]

I am not going to comment on the 1st one, other than to say that looks like a leap.

The 2nd one is OK. She maybe closing the hips too soon, but I don't know what the pitch was.

(I hadn't read Starsnuffer's post before I posted. He is more direct than I am.)

Yes...that is a classic leap, and as Starsnuffer pointed out she's illegal (based on what we're viewing) three different ways. Every foot she gains toward the plate on her leap adds approx. 3mph to her pitch speed.
Of course the 1st base ump isn't even looking at her feet (as he should be) when she pitches. Great video though for illustrating to newer umpires just what a leap looks like.

 

[Renntiger]

I don't know what it's like in the rest of the country, but many young pitchers in my neck of the woods are taught to pitch exactly like this (pitcher #1). I think it's a by-product of the excessive emphasis on keeping the hip open and to have a long stride, especially for those who are converting from step-pitching. The sequence is basically - take a huge leap, open wide and stay wide open, replant (this comes very naturally when you are leaping sideways and trying to gain more distance), and pitch off of BOTH legs. The latter gives these girls a leg up (sorry!) on those true leap-n-draggers, whose pivot leg supplies the initial forward momentum, but which becomes a "drag" throughout the rest of the motion. As a result, I believe many of these sideways leaping crow-hoppers throw harder than they would have otherwise, and may even have somewhat better control (the complete lack of obstruction from their torso and hip, combined with the severe forward lean in the follow through, produce a comparatively longer and more linear release path for their hand).

Unless and until these pitchers are called, or if they are overcome by severe back pain, there is virtually zero incentive for them to change (you might as well attempt to re-train a crab to crawl forward). At the youth level around here, I virtually never see these pitchers being called, even though their infractions are obvious. To do so would have put an end to some of the games, given that pitchers on both sides use exactly the same motion (and might have had the same pitching coach). Net result - I think this particular motion is here to stay, at least around where I am.

 

[starsnuffer]

What part of the country, if you don't mind my asking, Renntiger? GA?

-W

 

[coachdan]

I don't know what it's like in the rest of the country, but many young pitchers in my neck of the woods are taught to pitch exactly like this (pitcher #1). I think it's a by-product of the excessive emphasis on keeping the hip open and to have a long stride, especially for those who are converting from step-pitching. The sequence is basically - take a huge leap, open wide and stay wide open, replant (this comes very naturally when you are leaping sideways and trying to gain more distance), and pitch off of BOTH legs. The latter gives these girls a leg up (sorry!) on those true leap-n-draggers, whose pivot leg supplies the initial forward momentum, but which becomes a "drag" throughout the rest of the motion. As a result, I believe many of these sideways leaping crow-hoppers throw harder than they would have otherwise, and may even have somewhat better control (the complete lack of obstruction from their torso and hip, combined with the severe forward lean in the follow through, produce a comparatively longer and more linear release path for their hand).

Unless and until these pitchers are called, or if they are overcome by severe back pain, there is virtually zero incentive for them to change (you might as well attempt to re-train a crab to crawl forward). At the youth level around here, I virtually never see these pitchers being called, even though their infractions are obvious. To do so would have put an end to some of the games, given that pitchers on both sides use exactly the same motion (and might have had the same pitching coach). Net result - I think this particular motion is here to stay, at least around where I am.

Nice post renntiger, i agree about the umps not calling the IP. I have a 13 yr old daughter that pitchers and she is legal and when we play other teams they have the crow hoppers and leapers and I mention it to the blue and they act like they don't see anything wrong. They come back with the attitude that I should stop complaining and play ball. So what are you to do? Pitch legal and be at a disadvantge or do we do like the rest and hop and leap to get the advantage? We have played 3 weekends this spring and I have seen several illegal pitchers and not one has had IP called on them.