Pitching Lessons - At what point do hang it up?

[lhowser]

After working with bunches of girls over the last 6 years this kind of inaccuracy means her mechanics are not even close to correct. Whether it is overhand throwing or underhand throwing if the kid is athletic and can get the basic understanding of how to throw (over or under) they ought to be around the target. "Another pitching coach" may not be the answer. They may simply reinforce the nasty habits. If you personally are interested in having her pitch you need to be able to understand where here mechanics are basically flawed and see if she can get on the right track with at least some basic drills under your watchful eye. If not...just let it go and maybe she'll luck out and run into someone who can and wants to help her and her family see the light.

 

[Lozza]

Who gives a flying leap if the kid can pitch strikes in a rec league, unless that's her goal. If her goal is to "have fun playing rec ball", then by all means focus on getting the ball over the plate.

Good luck trying to get the girl to pick up speed after you've "focused on accuracy" It's a long hard hill to climb.

Like I said before, if you teach her to throw hard, and always throw hard, then her mechanics will always be the same, so when she learns the mechanics she will be accurate. If you teach her to "throw strikes" then you won't be teaching proper mechanics and will then have to fight against what you've already taught her in order to teach her properly.

I disagree with this. The entire point of the pitcher is to throw strikes. I'm not focussing on her speed, but I'm also not teaching her to slow down. I disagree with that on every level.

I disagree with leaping to begin with (I feel it puts too much pressure on the young kids bodies for little return that I've seen so far) but I know I'm alone on this point.

 

[WinThemAll]

I disagree with this. The entire point of the pitcher is to throw strikes. I'm not focussing on her speed, but I'm also not teaching her to slow down. I disagree with that on every level.

I disagree with leaping to begin with (I feel it puts too much pressure on the young kids bodies for little return that I've seen so far) but I know I'm alone on this point.

I really don't want to go down this road. . .but the point is to get outs!

 

[SoftSocDad]

I disagree with this. The entire point of the pitcher is to throw strikes. I'm not focussing on her speed, but I'm also not teaching her to slow down. I disagree with that on every level.

I disagree with leaping to begin with (I feel it puts too much pressure on the young kids bodies for little return that I've seen so far) but I know I'm alone on this point.

There are coaches here who subscribe to your school of thought and in time, more may, but for now, conventional wisdom says to teach beginning pitchers to throw hard instead of having them focus on trying to aim the ball in to get the strikes you want from your players. Based on the argument you've made, as Ken said, you're coaching them just to deliver a specific result, so the focus is on the wrong thing when compared to the prevailing mindset on this chicken-egg issue.

I do concede, however, that your method could be proven to be the preferred one at a later time. When a beginning pitcher focuses on aiming, she's giving up speed and with that loss of speed there IS a loss of control.

 

[katiesmum99]

Have you ever thought about possibly bringing in a pitching coach to get a 2nd opinion for the parents? That is if the parents are open to listening to what another PC coach has to say. Hopefully the parents can listen to constructive critism and realize you are only trying to help their DD. If you approached them with "I really want to see your daughter have more mound time, I've asked "Suzy" to take a look at her to help." Thus you are not attacking their "PC" but offering help, they might listen.

 

[southpaw coach]

Have you ever thought about possibly bringing in a pitching coach to get a 2nd opinion for the parents? That is if the parents are open to listening to what another PC coach has to say. Hopefully the parents can listen to constructive critism and realize you are only trying to help their DD. If you approached them with "I really want to see your daughter have more mound time, I've asked "Suzy" to take a look at her to help." Thus you are not attacking their "PC" but offering help, they might listen.

That's an idea to consider. Maybe bring in someone during a team practice and pull her aside. Not much the parents can say about that since they wouldn't be paying.

 

[chapelhillbilly]

Yes.

Who gives a flying leap if the kid can pitch strikes in a rec league, unless that's her goal. If her goal is to "have fun playing rec ball", then by all means focus on getting the ball over the plate.

Good luck trying to get the girl to pick up speed after you've "focused on accuracy" It's a long hard hill to climb.

Like I said before, if you teach her to throw hard, and always throw hard, then her mechanics will always be the same, so when she learns the mechanics she will be accurate. If you teach her to "throw strikes" then you won't be teaching proper mechanics and will then have to fight against what you've already taught her in order to teach her properly.

-W

To answer your question, the kid who has practiced everyday and worked hard is the one who "gives a flying leap" that she throws strikes in a rec game. I guess because my 9 year old isn't on a world renowned travel team she shouldn't worry about whether she pitches well or not.

 

[SoftSocDad]

SoftSocDad: When is the 'later time' that grooving or aiming strikes will be better?

First of all, we teach the young girls to throw strikes, then we soon tell them those pitches are too fat so aim at the corners only; then when we get to movement pitches, we tell them to spin the ball rather than aim just a fastball at the corners or up and down.

So the aiming at a young age has limited purpose. You do however, want to get your mechanics lined up properly. But it is fastpitch not slowpitch and we use our legs mostly, not our arms, so that should be the early focus.

I pitched my whole life and trust me, you want to throw strikes, but if you don't learn at least the underpinnings of creating velocity, strikes do not mean a hill of beans. You have to keep relearning your timing at each gain in speed, all the while messing with the girl's head (creating self doubt about walks). So you go fast first and fine tune the pitch locations later. Let the walks go, they are no worse than errors. You just want a limited amount that the girl can get herself out of.

Most high level pitching coaches (who write books) say this. And I can tell you from teaching, it works.

You misread me - I wasn't disagreeing with the prevailing mindset of the experts and practitioners.

I was telling Lozza that conventional wisdom could change at some point in the future, but as of right now, she's wrong based on all the information we currently have.

 

[SoftSocDad]

To answer your question, the kid who has practiced everyday and worked hard is the one who "gives a flying leap" that she throws strikes in a rec game. I guess because my 9 year old isn't on a world renowned travel team she shouldn't worry about whether she pitches well or not.

Short-term vs long-term.

Sure, kids want to perform well right now, because strikeouts generate smiles and those smiles along with dazzling performances are what make many parents happy. But while every rec league has a different talent makeup, what the experts have told us is that an overemphasis on achieving false success at that level can be detrimental to a young athlete's long-term development.

In simplest terms, the girl who trains daily to 'throw strikes' can achieve exactly that, and many do with a bit of a hitch in their delivery. She aims the ball carefully across, walks very few batters, and people think she's wonderful. Meanwhile, another girl goes out, trains 4 times a week to throw as hard as she can, and on game day, she hits a few, walks several, and perhaps takes some criticism for putting so much pressure on her team to score, but she certainly isn't praised as much as the other 10yo. But she's the one the travel ball coaches are looking at because, "Man, she can really bring the heat."

Two years later, though, the former wild one is now the #1 pitcher in the league because she and her parents and coaches have gotten her mechanics including footwork sorted out, while our little aimer is relegated to coming off the bench and pitching only when the game is out of reach, because she never was taught to just let the ball fly.

The dynamics are tricky, but let's not underestimate the psychological component. I know that every one of us wants to see our kids succeed, but I don't feel I'm out of line in saying that teaching failure as a part of the SUCCESS process is one of the most important lessons we can give to our children, because it extends well beyond youth softball.

 

[EP Dad]

SoftSocDad,

I agree with your short-term, long term analysis but in my opinion it works both ways.

As has been discussed before the proper mechanics lead to both places. So, it doesn't matter which kid you are, ultimately the only ones that are going to be left standing are the ones with the proper mechanics.

I guess we have been lucky then because our DD is in the "throw strikes" category but we've found out at a very young age that without speed and movement that is meaningless. It's all about mechanics. We finally feel we have the right pitching coach and are learning the right mechanics for the first time. Entering her first spring season in 12U this Spring and excited for her and us what it could bring.