Pitching Lessons - At what point do hang it up?

[southpaw coach]

I got this 12u travel player who can hit, run, and field and was recruited for exactly those reasons two years ago (since first year of 10u). A little over a year ago, her mom started taking her to pitching lessons. In addition she has been working on her pitching in the back yard with mom and dad. I know because I live near by and see them out there a LOT.

Rewind to last spring, six months or so into lessons I give her a chance to pitch in a scrimmage. While she threw hard, she had little control. Over the course of the summer travel season I gave her two or three other opportunities to pitch. She could never last an inning - sometimes could not even get an out. Led the team in HBPs in fewer than 3 IPs. ERA was over 60.

Present day: Our first series of fall season scrimmages I give her another shot at pitching. She made it 1 and almost 1/3 inning (walked three straight and couldnt get an out) which you could call improvement.

At this point I recommended to both parents that they take her to another pitching coach if she really wants to pitch. With this kids athleticism, something is wrong in my opinion if she can't pitch in a game after a year of lessons. Parents won't make the switch and claim they are happy with the instructor.

Next tournament rolls around two weeks later and in the week leading up I had her pitch in practice and even warmed her up before our first tournament game. She was all over the place. I didn't put her in any of the games. Monday morning rolls around I get an email from Dad asking me why.

He doesn't want to hear about taking her to another instructor and I really don't get it. I think this family is getting ripped off because supposedly the instructor keeps telling them how good she's doing (and taking their money every week!)

Truth is, I really wish this kid could pitch because we need another pitcher. This past weekend I put her in a meaningless game and she walked three, gave up a single, and hit the next batter. I pulled her before she ever got an out. At this point I think I am done giving her chances to pitch in games.

I am a little conflicted. My wife doesn't think i should tell the parents they are being ripped off. I feel I am doing them a disservice by not being honest. Part of me thinks this kid will simply never be a pitcher but I also don't think it's my place to destroy her dreams.

Any one else been through this?

 

[Amy in AZ.]

There are many PCs that teach speed first and say that control will come. I am not one of them, because as you have found out, she gets no game time, if she has no control.

 

[SoftSocDad]

One of the hardest things in the world is to tell people how to spend their money, especially when they already feel the money they're spending is indirectly benefiting you/your team. But even harder than you saying it is them hearing it. So, you have to show them by putting her out there, letting her get knocked around, and then pulling her. Sounds like you've seen enough of that, though, and any reasonable person would agree you've done your part.

If she wants 'learning time' in game situations, then she needs to go be a rec pitcher.

That being said, I don't think the door is closed on her pitching future, even with the crappy PC. If she's a gifted athlete and the commitment to pitching is hers and not just her parents', then encourage her to continue.

In her last outing, my kiddo struck out 4 of the 6 batters she faced and didn't allow a single baserunner. Today in practice, she was on fire in warmups. Then when they scrimmaged, she couldn't find the strike zone at all. In fact, she wasn't even close. I didn't count all the pitches, but less than 20% were strikes before the coach finally pulled her. That could just as easily happen in a game situation, even in back-to-back games, but beginner pitchers often struggle with control and then one day, the light just goes on (and sometimes flips off, as we saw today! lol).

As Amy stated, there are differing philosophies, but at that age, almost every coach I've heard from on the subject has said they'd prefer to take a chance on the girl with a rocket arm, hoping they can sort out the mechanics and get a fireballer on their roster.

 

[sluggers]

At this point I recommended to both parents that they take her to another pitching coach if she really wants to pitch.

If you insist on trying to save the kid, may I suggest you develop an affinity for St. Jude (the patron saint of lost causes)?

It is a bad idea to try to get the kid to a different coach. I've been down that road many, many times, and it always ends up the same. The parents believe the coach doesn't understand pitching. (What is there to understand? Contrary to popular belief, good pitchers don't walk batters, don't allow many hits or runs, and strike out most of the batters. Trust me on this.)

At this point I think I am done giving her chances to pitch in games.

IMHO, you are handling it appropriately. Just drop the whole "change pitching coach" thing. The bottom line in athletics is whether the athlete can perform during a game. If she can't, then don't play her. It is that simple.

You should give her a couple of innings now and then, and see if she improves. If she hasn't, then so be it, and pull her. She probably won't play for you next year anyway.

 

[Lozza]

Speed is irrelevant until they have control. You don't want to focus on speed until you have control.

I have a similar issue with a kid at my association. She's a damn good pitcher (state) but her mother knows best. This girl has been given pitching lessons with national players and her mother will be standing there correcting her. She can pitch about three digs before she loses it. It's really frustrating to watch, as she has the ability but her parents are holding her back.

 

[PA SB Dad]

As bad as this may sound, the next time you are in a meaningless game, keep her in there and let her take her lumps for as long as she (and you) can stand it. Put your best players in the field where there can be no excuse that the defense let her down. The player has to realize at some point that her performance is not good enough and must improve. It will also be an eye-opener for the parents if she gives up 10 runs in an inning and gets no outs. There is no better feedback than a big dose of reality.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

I recently had an 11 YO ask me how long it would take her to get as good as A and B (2 students who have been with me 3 yrs.) I had never been asked that before. I wanted to say 3 years - but I said 6 months. I don't know why I said that. I didn't want her to give up, but she would have to pitch daily, with a vision for every lesson, to EVER catch up.

 

[fivepotsogold]

Not sure you can set a time for how long a kid will be good enough ...

I'm sure many thought my 14 year old would never be good enough. In fact she got shoved aside in Rec as an 11 yar old and that made her tryout for Travel ...
She is not the most athletic kid, did take her a good 3+ years to be pitching 53-56 very few walks, hits corners) of hard work.
In 9th grade, likely to be JV (which is fine) ...

Leaving this kid in to pitch is a GREAT idea ... helps them learn how to struggle through adversity (lots of that early on)
(a lot of this is mental strength, not just physical ability),
kid will either decide to make some changes to improve or decide to focus on other positions.

 

[southpaw coach]

As bad as this may sound, the next time you are in a meaningless game, keep her in there and let her take her lumps for as long as she (and you) can stand it. Put your best players in the field where there can be no excuse that the defense let her down. The player has to realize at some point that her performance is not good enough and must improve. It will also be an eye-opener for the parents if she gives up 10 runs in an inning and gets no outs. There is no better feedback than a big dose of reality.

I have thought of doing that but out of consideration for the other players decided against it. I hate keeping the defense out there unnecessarily and they get flat footed watching walks. I also get looks from the pitcher - looks that tell me she's ready to be done with it.

I appreciate the input regarding how long it takes to build a pitcher though. I've seen girls that with a little work can be pretty consistent as 8 year olds. Our #2 pitcher just started taking lessons last March and although she isn't what I would call overpowering, she is effective and reliable. Based upon those experiences I was starting to think that this other kid won't ever cut it if she hasn't gotten it after a year of lessons. The other aspect we talk about amongst coaches is "how much of this problem is in her head?"

 

[southpaw coach]

Not sure you can set a time for how long a kid will be good enough ...

I'm sure many thought my 14 year old would never be good enough. In fact she got shoved aside in Rec as an 11 yar old and that made her tryout for Travel ...
She is not the most athletic kid, did take her a good 3+ years to be pitching 53-56 very few walks, hits corners) of hard work.
In 9th grade, likely to be JV (which is fine) ...

Leaving this kid in to pitch is a GREAT idea ... helps them learn how to struggle through adversity (lots of that early on)
(a lot of this is mental strength, not just physical ability),
kid will either decide to make some changes to improve or decide to focus on other positions.

Just to clarify my idea of good enough. Obviously it depends on the competition but I am not looking for her to be able to blow it by every hitter she faces to be what I call "game ready". Control is the real problem.