Pitching Instruction, Drills and Styles.......Who to Believe????

[tomzpc]

My daughter started pitching for the first time this past fall at 9 years old with our 10U Fallball rec team. She just decided that she wanted to pitch and the only instruction that she had had to that point was from a local rec. coach who does free pitching clinics in our community. He's a real nice guy who works well with the kids and he does say that if your daughter wants to pursue this that you should consider getting her a coach if it can be afforded. Since that time I have spent quite a bit of time looking at video online and reading at websites like this one about the proper ways to pitch.
I spent a little time trying to find a local coach to no avail. So far this winter I have driven my daughter almost 90 minutes each way to a 4 week clinic in CT that was offered by a well regarded pitching coach in the area, another clinic held in a baseball/softball training center that is about a half an hour from where we live in NY and to several individual pitching lessons at the same place. For the most part she has been instructed to do the same types of things including pitching from a knee (windmills?), starting in a K position and throwing, and lots and lots of wristsnaps, both with a ball and with a spinner. One place had her doing wrist snaps from an open position and another has her doing them in a closed position. Another coach has her doing them by snapping the ball under her bent leg while kneeling. Also, one place has her follow through to the point where her palm is in front of her face (they literally draw smiley faces on the kids' palms to say hi) and another says to just let the follow through come naturally. There are other differences, some quite subtle but I think you get my point. Recently I've read somewhere that wrist snaps are a waste of time and also that a follow through should always be across the body, like it is in an overhanded motion.

My problem here is that everyone says to get a coach, yet every coach I speak with or meet wants to teach my daughter different things? After attending clinics, catching my daughter and doing my own research I can see the things that these coaches point out that I feel more comfortable working with my daughter that I won't really mess her up. But the thing is I don't know what is right, wrong, or even just best. My daughter wants to pitch so I'm willing to invest the time and some money but what's the point if we aren't doing things properly. $75 an hour is expensive enough even when the training is good.

I'm curious to hear what some of you experts feel that my daughter should be working on. Some instructions for drills would be appreciated. For all intents and purposes she is still a beginner. She had a few decent outings in the circle back in the fall but for the most part she still has very very little control. Not looking to produce a college standout. Frankly, she's just 9 nine years old, likes softball, and wants to pitch so I'd like to see her do well and build some confidence in her life. Any and all help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks...Tom

 

[halskinner]

My daughter started pitching for the first time this past fall at 9 years old with our 10U Fallball rec team. She just decided that she wanted to pitch and the only instruction that she had had to that point was from a local rec. coach who does free pitching clinics in our community. He's a real nice guy who works well with the kids and he does say that if your daughter wants to pursue this that you should consider getting her a coach if it can be afforded. Since that time I have spent quite a bit of time looking at video online and reading at websites like this one about the proper ways to pitch.
I spent a little time trying to find a local coach to no avail. So far this winter I have driven my daughter almost 90 minutes each way to a 4 week clinic in CT that was offered by a well regarded pitching coach in the area, another clinic held in a baseball/softball training center that is about a half an hour from where we live in NY and to several individual pitching lessons at the same place. For the most part she has been instructed to do the same types of things including pitching from a knee (windmills?), starting in a K position and throwing, and lots and lots of wristsnaps, both with a ball and with a spinner. One place had her doing wrist snaps from an open position and another has her doing them in a closed position. Another coach has her doing them by snapping the ball under her bent leg while kneeling. Also, one place has her follow through to the point where her palm is in front of her face (they literally draw smiley faces on the kids' palms to say hi) and another says to just let the follow through come naturally. There are other differences, some quite subtle but I think you get my point. Recently I've read somewhere that wrist snaps are a waste of time and also that a follow through should always be across the body, like it is in an overhanded motion.

My problem here is that everyone says to get a coach, yet every coach I speak with or meet wants to teach my daughter different things? After attending clinics, catching my daughter and doing my own research I can see the things that these coaches point out that I feel more comfortable working with my daughter that I won't really mess her up. But the thing is I don't know what is right, wrong, or even just best. My daughter wants to pitch so I'm willing to invest the time and some money but what's the point if we aren't doing things properly. $75 an hour is expensive enough even when the training is good.

I'm curious to hear what some of you experts feel that my daughter should be working on. Some instructions for drills would be appreciated. For all intents and purposes she is still a beginner. She had a few decent outings in the circle back in the fall but for the most part she still has very very little control. Not looking to produce a college standout. Frankly, she's just 9 nine years old, likes softball, and wants to pitch so I'd like to see her do well and build some confidence in her life. Any and all help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks...Tom

Hi Tom.

I am not the only old instructor on here that feels this way but, trying to drills will only re-inforce bad mechanics if the mechanics are not right to begin with.

Can you post a video of her pitching so we can tell what style and wind up she uses?

Hal

PS. Do not do any drills. wrist snaps or whatever with the hips completely closed, bad for the shoulder. Keep tham at 45 degrees or open more than that. Please let that instructor know that has been recommended also.

 

[Ken Krause]

Totally agree with everything Hal said here. Drills can be good learning tools, or good for addressing specific issues. But an over-reliance on drills can get in the way and reinforce bad mechanics.

Two good things to do are look for video of top-level pitchers and see how what you're being told compares to what they're doing, and if a coach says to do something you think doesn't make sense ask why. You'd be amazed how much stuff just gets repeated because someone heard it somewhere and never thought it through.

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

Tom - here's my take on it from a dad's point of view, in a very similar situation to yours.

Continue to educate yourself on fastpitch pitching whether its books; websites likes "girls.softball.com" excellent reading for parents of young pitchers; talk to parents of older pitchers and pump them for information. They love talking about there DD's development and you can learn a lot; read blogs like this one : ). Watch a lot our pitching video on youtube of the best pitchers in the world (Cat, Ueno, Finch, ..) You are on the right track.

You need an expert helping you. Find her an individual pitching coach that your DD responds well to and stick with that PC for the near future. Take her to weekly lessons if you can afford it. You should be seeing rapid improvement with your daughter the first year. Ask a lot of questions and challenge your PC about their pitching techniques. Take notes!

Try to understand "internal rotation" or the natural movement of the arm in a circle.

IMO - at this age and experience, teach proper mechanics for speed first. Have her throw as hard as she can, while maintaining proper mechanics. Location is secondary. You have to make this investment (wildness) to get better.

Catch her 2 - 3 times each week, almost year-round.

While we do wrist drills, I am not sure that doing isolation drills does anything at all? Drills I love are the "flamingo" (balancing on the pivot foot and then making her normal pitching motion) and having her stand far behind the rubber and taking 5 steps or so and walking into her pitching motion (Drills that involve almost all of the pitching motions are preferable).

She (not you) has to want to be a better pitcher and put in the time.

Lastly, no person on this board can teach/tell your daughter how to pitch, they need to spend time with her in person to really help.

Welcome to girls fastpitch!

 

[SBFAMILY]

Bill Hillhouse: House of Pitching Softball Academy Bill Hillhouse has some good DVD's that address drills. He is on this site and can address what he thinks of wrist snaps. We do not do them.

 

[kahenaghan]

When we were looking for a pitching instructor we did a lot of research on the web and at the tournaments. I had no problems going up to the parents of the best 14U/16U/18U pitchers and asking where they took their daughter for pitching lessons. 3/4 of them all were going to the same coach. I called and she was completely booked and suggested I sign her up for one of their camps and we did. After the camp I asked again about lessons for my 12 year old and she said again that she was completely booked up with high school girls. I gave her my name and number and asked if she ever had a cancellation if she would call me. As fate would have it, she had two girls come down with the flu and we got in. We have been having weekly lessons for a year now and we always work around her busy schedule. She still doesn't take young girls and I know whe was making an exception for us. We are always very thankful for her as she has become a good friend and a great instructor and we laugh now at me being the persistent mom.

Be persistent and flexible as the top instuctors are very busy, but as others say on this site "Find the best instructor in your area!" Don't be afraid to ask parents and coaches who they suggest. Find the best travel team in your area and find out where they go.

 

[tomzpc]

Thanks everyone. In regards to committing to a coach, I have yet to find one in my area that doesn't put a whole lot of emphasis on things like "wrist snaps" and "pointing with the elbow" and from what most of the people are saying on here this isn't the way to go.

Hal: I can see about shooting some video if I spend for some tunnel time but frankly she's still so new to this and so inconsistent that I'm not sure I can say that she has a set style and windup at this point.

To SoCalsoftballdad: Back in the fall I would catch my daughter at least 3 or 4 times a week but unfortunately the weather around here is not condusive to outdoor practice this time of year and I don't have a big basement which is why I'm always on the lookout for drills that we can do indoors with liteflite or similar softie balls.

I was looking at the instructional videos on Bill H's site. Are these good instructional videos that a dad who is still relatively new to this stuff can understand and work with her on? The price is right at $30 so I'm thinking of ordering one.

 

[cshilt]

I was looking at the instructional videos on Bill H's site. Are these good instructional videos that a dad who is still relatively new to this stuff can understand and work with her on? The price is right at $30 so I'm thinking of ordering one.

Yes! Bill is a very good instructor and the concepts he teaches not only work, but make sense. He is, without using the term, what is referred to on this board as an IR instructor.

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

Thanks everyone. In regards to committing to a coach, I have yet to find one in my area that doesn't put a whole lot of emphasis on things like "wrist snaps" and "pointing with the elbow" and from what most of the people are saying on here this isn't the way to go.

Hal: I can see about shooting some video if I spend for some tunnel time but frankly she's still so new to this and so inconsistent that I'm not sure I can say that she has a set style and windup at this point.

To SoCalsoftballdad: Back in the fall I would catch my daughter at least 3 or 4 times a week but unfortunately the weather around here is not condusive to outdoor practice this time of year and I don't have a big basement which is why I'm always on the lookout for drills that we can do indoors with liteflite or similar softie balls.

I was looking at the instructional videos on Bill H's site. Are these good instructional videos that a dad who is still relatively new to this stuff can understand and work with her on? The price is right at $30 so I'm thinking of ordering one.

I forgot about the east coast winter weather issue, my apologies. Regarding the teaching style, most PC's will teach what they learned which probably is not true internal rotation. Our PC does teach wrist snap, elbow up, etc. but my DD is young (7) and I would expect that as she develops as a pitcher, we will let the arm and wrist rotate more naturally from 12 o'clock through release. I wouldn't get too caught up in which style is "correct" right now but be aware that IR does exist. You have to remember, your DD is still learning the whole pitching motion (balance before pitch, arm swing back, push off with pivot foot, taking a big stride, turning of hips, etc.) which is going to be essenitally be the same motion no matter what technique she is using in the last 1/4 of the pitch. Talk to a few PCs in your area and let them know your concerns. I'm fairly convinced that the young, "good" pitchers are probably, naturally doing some sort of IR even though their PC is not a "internal rotation" instructor. They are pitching somewhere on the continuum, between pull through vs. push down techniques.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

I can't stand pitching coaches. We went to one just for a little advice on a certain pitch at 11 years old. Just like you stated earlier, she wanted to completely change our whole style. We quit after a few lessons. We have been pitching for 6 years........... with 2 months of official pitching coach lessons.

Here is my resume and thoughts. haha. My DD has been pitching since 8u. In the last 2 years of varsity school ball she has only lost 1 game pitching. Undefeated in 2009 season school ball. Won USFA State Championship, undefeated. She is 14 but moved up to 16U during the fall for experience, she went undefeated all fall on the mound. ( ASA )

She is the only softball pitcher in a large baseball pitching family. So how did we do it? I bought DVDs..........yes DVDs. Start off with 'basic pitching dvds', Softball.com has a great list of beginning to advanced pitching DVDs. Sit down and watch them with her, and let her practice the movements there in the living room. Buy a pop up net from your local sports store and put it up in the garage so she will have a warm place to practice. Let her throw 10-15 feet from the net. You want her just to get comfortable with her pitching style. ( every pitcher has a diff style )

When weather permits the whole key is live pitching. About 100 pitches when you can. Start her now on trying to hit spots all around the plate. And most important!!! Make it fun for you and her. Always try to end a pitching practice on a good note. You both want to feel good about that day's lesson.

At 9 years old, your DD will only be throwing a fastball and change up. About 10 1/2 to 11 is when we started learning a drop ball. 12 we added a curve. 13 a rise and screw.

Good luck.