Pinch runner scores - who gets run?

[CoogansBluff]

... "if everyone else is doing it, does that make it right?"

From GM's second link:

Official NCAA scorebook and rules
SCORING TERMS
SECTION 2.
v.
Run: The act of an offensive player legally advancing to and touching home plate without being put out.

To answer your question, it's a matter of opinion whether the scoring rules are 'right.' Some would say that a batted ball that results in reaching base should be considered a hit, regardless of whether the fielder missed the ball. Some would say that a pop fly lost in the sun should be rule an error.

Regarding the run scored, I believe that the player who actually scores the run should get credit with the run, for the reasons that Momo'sDad laid out. But there's nothing that says you can't score the way the makes the most sense to those are are looking at the stats.

 

[Hard**Mom]

Chinamigarden, to answer your question - my thought process is that the batter earned first base. Without that hit, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. The pinch runner is simply the batter's proxy and didn't do anything to earn that cherished position on first. If the next batter hits a HR, for example ... what did the pinch runner do to earn that run? What's fair? Now, once the pinch runner enters the game, and then steals a base - that is all to the credit of the pinch runner - I don't believe there's any reason to credit that stolen base to the original batter, who is now a spectator on the bench. What's fair? Of course, all this begs the question (as someone else has pointed out) of what happens if that pinch runner steals home! I'd then be inclined to credit the pinch runner with the run.

The deeper you get into the weeds, the harder it is to see clearly but, in the absence of a specific rule in the official rule book, I try to do what I think is most fair.

Is there a flaw in my logic?

 

[GOINGDEEP]

My DD, a pitcher, gets a courtesy runner when she gets OB. Mostly because she "ain't got no wheels".

Hard mom, I know what your "feeling" but I'm afraid the other posters are correct. My DD has a small "run" stat because of the courtesy runner she uses, but it's JUST a figure. My DD gets credit for the hit/BB/ROE/HR etc because that's her job in the box, once she reaches base, that's someone else's job to base run smart and score, so they should receive the credit "for their part".

I know you're probably feeling that a player is being "robbed" of a stat, but it's not. The batter gets credit for what they physically do, the runner gets credit for what they physically do.

It would not be fair to give my DD the "run" when SHE didn't earn that stat, someone else did the running.

 

[CoogansBluff]

... in the absence of a specific rule in the official rule book, I try to do what I think is most fair.

Is there a flaw in my logic?

Yes. The flaw is that there is a specific rule in the official rule book. I quoted it.

Run: The act of an offensive player legally advancing to and touching home plate without being put out.

 

[CycloneSoftball22]

If we are talking a true pinch runner , a substitution has been made and the hitter is out of the game.

 

[chinamigarden]

From GM's second link:

Official NCAA scorebook and rules
SCORING TERMS
SECTION 2.
v.
Run: The act of an offensive player legally advancing to and touching home plate without being put out.

To answer your question, it's a matter of opinion whether the scoring rules are 'right.' Some would say that a batted ball that results in reaching base should be considered a hit, regardless of whether the fielder missed the ball. Some would say that a pop fly lost in the sun should be rule an error.

Regarding the run scored, I believe that the player who actually scores the run should get credit with the run, for the reasons that Momo'sDad laid out. But there's nothing that says you can't score the way the makes the most sense to those are are looking at the stats.

That depends on whose mom is keeping the book

 

[chinamigarden]

Chinamigarden, to answer your question - my thought process is that the batter earned first base. Without that hit, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. The pinch runner is simply the batter's proxy and didn't do anything to earn that cherished position on first. If the next batter hits a HR, for example ... what did the pinch runner do to earn that run? What's fair? Now, once the pinch runner enters the game, and then steals a base - that is all to the credit of the pinch runner - I don't believe there's any reason to credit that stolen base to the original batter, who is now a spectator on the bench. What's fair? Of course, all this begs the question (as someone else has pointed out) of what happens if that pinch runner steals home! I'd then be inclined to credit the pinch runner with the run.

The deeper you get into the weeds, the harder it is to see clearly but, in the absence of a specific rule in the official rule book, I try to do what I think is most fair.

Is there a flaw in my logic?

The pinch runner was put in the game for a reason, its to run. So let her have the one stat she is going to get. The flaw in the logic is that stats are not necessarily there to be fair, but to be a record of what actually happened. Not what could have happened, or what might have happened but what actually happened. The runner who actually touches home plate, is the runner who scored the run.

 

[Sweet Lou]

Is there a flaw in my logic?

Other than that it is contrary to official scoring rules, no.

I think this may have already been linked and the rule was already quoted by chinamigarden but

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/Stats_Manuals/Baseball/baseball_softball_scorebook.pdf
offical scorer section 2, v