Greenmonsters
Wannabe Duck Boat Owner
Throw in the fact that the batter was running to first on an uncaught third strike (DTS) and you have 3 of the least poorly understood rules in play on the same play!
Overrunning First Base
- Thread starter CPEM
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Throw in the fact that the batter was running to first on an uncaught third strike (DTS) and you have 3 of the least poorly understood rules in play on the same play!
Thanks, now I see it under LBR (i.e. 8-7T.3.e). Under LBR, the runner has to commit themselves after overrunning to either 1B or 2B. Turning right commits them to 1B. Turning left doesn't commit them to a base, but the next move does.
Umpire brought up LBR 3 posts before MTR's post, so I guess he was responding to that.
I put part of your quote in bold because there's some implications to that part of the rule. If you teach your players always to turn right then there are some opportunities, legally, you might miss. A dropped third with first open that the catcher throws back to the pitcher or a bunt or hit back to the pitcher that she bobbles and holds - in each case the batter-runner is likely running to overrun first. In each case second base may be uncovered (say there's a runner at second and there was a bunt or a fake bunt swing, which brought F6 to third and F4 to first, F8 is taking a nap). If your player is turning right then, legally, she cannot take what amounts to a free base - she HAS to return to first. I've had such situations happen - they are rare, granted. But there's just something that doesn't sit well with me if I were to coach my players to do something because an umpire might get it wrong (whether judgment or rule interp.). I'd rather coach assuming the defense might get it wrong. I teach my players to overrun first, then stop as quickly as they can, turn left and start to head directly back to first (even aside from this narrow part of the rule, how many players miss opportunities because they've over run so far they're practically in right field or have veered right, just as far, into foul territory?). Anyway, I respect coaching it the other way, my daughter had a fantastic coach that did (one of the few things I disagreed with him about), I just wanted to add another perspective.
- Nov 8, 2014
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I totally agree with you. Put on the brakes immediately and turn your head and body to the field of play and see what's happening. NEVER TURN YOUR BACK TO THE BALL unless it's going to hit you. We got victimized by poor officiating in last year's playoffs when what you described happened...2B was left unattended during a bunt and the throw to 1B was late. as 1B returned the ball to Pitcher returning to the circle, R1 advanced a third of the way to 2B before retreating safely to 1B. It would've been a close play with the late reacting CF. Safe all around. head coach argued look back rule saying ball was in circle and then R1 moved towards second. I insisted the runner made the simultaneous move with the throw back to pitcher (who in my opinion was still well in front of the circle after charging the perfect bunt either way...Im certain the look back rule did not apply. Runner was free to return to 1B.
The 2 Umpires conferred, runner was called out. We lost 2-1 a few innings later. I thought it was creative umpiring by the field ump. Plate ump told me he didn't see it, and it was FU's decision. If field ump saw a violation of the LBR when it happened, he would've called it. A conference with his Plate umpire didn't give him any new information.
- Jun 22, 2008
- 3,438
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Be careful about having the BR turn "body" toward the infield. Some runners follow their nose which means if the head turns to the left the entire body may turn to the left. If it is too much of a "turn" or gives the impression the runner may be heading toward 2B, the umpire may perceive it as an attempt.
AFA the LBR call, that was some weak umpiring by a weak umpire. OTOH, the LBR is an unnecessary rule and should just be eliminated.
I'm OK with getting rid of LBR if there is some mechanism to end the play and get runners back. It's so annoying in Little League baseball to watch the kid take a lead off first after a pitch and have the pitcher throw over, 1B throws back and then he does it again. I much prefer softball where Catcher throws to pitcher and you either delay steal or go back.
What I don't like about the rule is when it's applied to a runner who say walks with a runner on 3rd and rounds first then stops to go back and is called out.
What I don't like about the rule is when it's applied to a runner who say walks with a runner on 3rd and rounds first then stops to go back and is called out.
- Jun 22, 2008
- 3,438
- 48
Same as it was before and presently is in SP. When all play is obviously complete, the umpire calls time and everyone sets for the next pitch.
The LBR was never meant to be a "gotcha" call or part of game strategy. It was meant as a game control tool and has gotten way out of hand. And before you say it, it has been going on for decades and is not a problem.
Sounds like your issue should be with a bad call, not the rule. As long as they round 1B without stopping, they are entitled to stop once and them immediately either advance or go back.
