Overrunning First Base

[marriard]

A friend of mine is in his first year umpiring and he called me with the following scenario that happened to him:

ASA 10u Rec
Bases empty, fewer than 2 outs, B1 hits a groundball to F6. The throw from F6 to F3 is too late to retire BR1. BR1 overruns 1B, stops about 10 ft. past 1B, turns counterclockwise, and begins returning to 1B. Defensive fans and coaches yell to F3 to "tag her" since she turned to her left. F3 starts running at B1 to tag her. B1, seeing F3 coming to tag her, takes a couple of steps towards 2B before she is tagged and declared out by the umpire.

When my friend called me, he said he was prepared to call her safe had she continued back towards 1B, but the moment she stepped towards 2B, he had to call her out. Based on what he told me, I agreed with him, with only one exception. I told him that it is a HTBT situation, but I think taking a few steps towards 2B doesn't necessarily constitute an attempt to advance to 2B. At this level of play, I can imagine BR1 looking for a route around F3 back to 1B that may involve running into fair territory. But, if it is obvious that BR1 is now attempting to advance to 2B, then the out call is correct. Am I correct in my thinking, or do you other umpires think differently?

Tough one for rec... - but if you are going by rule it is out if in your judgement the runner made an actual attempt for 2B. If she just tried to avoid a tag to get back to 1B, then you can legitimately say there was no attempt to advance and put the runner on 1B. Have to be there to make the call.

What I can guarantee it is going to involve a discussion with the coaches about what the rule is and why it is called that way (which will then be contradicted by the umpire in the next game who gets it totally wrong.)

If the ump believes there was ANY attempt to go to 2B then the runner would be out. As others have said, turn direction and fair/foul have nothing to do with this - just whether there is an actual attempt to go to second.

 

[coach james]

The problem here is that there are always people that consider "an attempt to advance", as stepping an half an inch over the chalk line into fair territory while returning to first. I do coach a 10U team as well as my 16U. I have them play it safe, to avoid any possible disputes. Just turn right and stay well off the chalk unless instructed differently by the 1B coach.

 

[James Smith]

If we move this post to coaching runners we teach them to turn right to look for the ball. If they see the ball they are gone. Don’t wait for the coach to say anything just run.

 

[coach james]

If we move this post to coaching runners we teach them to turn right to look for the ball. If they see the ball they are gone. Don’t wait for the coach to say anything just run.

This is OK until the ball bounces off the dug out fence right back to F3... now your a sitting duck!

 

[James Smith]

Sure they get throw out sometimes, especially the ones that take ½ an hour to get to 2nd, but that is OK. I want them running.

 

[VA Chris]

Got to agree with James here. The 5 runners that make it to 2nd on the overthrow are good exchange for the 1 runner getting called out.


Glad to see this forum understanding the rule as written. Seems that every time a girl turns left the entire crowd starts yelling that she is in play. Rules clearly say "attempt or feign" towards 2nd.

 

[BretMan]

This is yet another one of those enduring rule myths that pops up year after year after year. I can remember a huge dust-up over this rule in a game when I played youth baseball...and that was a loooong time ago!

 

[canyonjoe]

It's up there with those that insist you can't bunt with 2 strikes and any popup to the infield you team doesn't catch should have been called infield fly rule regardless how many runners are on base or outs are made.

I had a guy on my kids team insist that if 2 runners were on the same base it was an automatic out.

 

[James Smith]

What an idiot, everyone knows the limit is 3.

 

[Cobb_of_Fury]

This is yet another one of those enduring rule myths that pops up year after year after year. I can remember a huge dust-up over this rule in a game when I played youth baseball...and that was a loooong time ago!

There is a comprehensive list of the Great UN-Truths of the game here: http://www.eteamz.com/CGSA/files/SOFTBALLRULEMYTHS.pdf