Opinions on attacking the lead elbow

[cshilt]

When we do the rope drill we don't provide any resistance until the hitter gets into the bat lag position. From the bat lag position on through to contact we want the lead elbow to stay higher than the hands and for the hands to stay higher than the barrel of the bat. We give our hitter the cue of "where the elbow was the hands will be" and we show them. We don't want the lead elbow to go straight up a ramp, but more like going up a circular staircase. If we're pulling in a linear fashion, we won't be as strong. If the elbow is tucked into the side we won't be as strong.

 

[redzuk]

"Turning the barrel", I still dont know what it describes. I open the Tyson gif and hit the arrow button 8 times, the hands have done nothing, not sure if we are looking at the same frame or not, frame 10 is heel plant. Frame 11, separation, as separation stops the upper body is getting on board, back elbow starts down and forward. Frame 12, back elbow moves some more and hands hold the hinge angle until frame 18 (connection). Only after connection do I see the hands do anything. Is it not a true hinge angle? Maybe we should just make up another name for the action. Hinge may be to rigid and precise.

Both hands are needed to hold the angle, the hands provide resistance so the barrel doesnt turn. Pretty much the opposite of what I understand "turning the barrel" to mean.

There have been a lot of videos put up that show the hands more clearly than the Tyson video, can anyone use one of them to show the hands turning the barrel? I dont think you can, I think what your are describing is a feel. Great, if that works for you, not really how it feels to me though.

 

[Wellphyt]

"...if video is so important in teaching and understanding EVERYTHING, then we could watch BB King or Eric Clapton and learn how to play the guitar. Why does it appear to work for hitting and nothing else? Feel must not be important or where the went or the swing starting from the ground up etc."

You should ask Howard if guitar playing has absolutes. Do guitar players have to place their fingers on specific strings at a certain location along the Fret to make a "D" chord? How about a "C" chord? When a guitar player makes a chord, do his fingers go on top of the strings or underneath the strings? Is it ok for the parts of the hand that are not being used to make a chord, to touch the adjacent strings?

Trainers and atheletes use video analysis all the time to perfect their movements. When a baseball player goes into a slump, many times they will analyze their swing and compare it to swings when they were killing the ball. Downhill Skiers use video all the time to perfect their technique.

Video makes instructors and coaches accountable. A lot of instructors aren't comfortable having what they teach compared to what the best hitters actually do. I get that.

A guy told me a long time ago that "people hear what they want to hear". What Howard apparently isn't hearing is that many of us who study video, also swing a bat. We do that so we can feel what is going on under-the-hood. As I recall, Howard was one of the ones who made light of those of us who had an interest in studying the under-the-hood movements of the body. When teaching, I find that information very helpful.

 

[Chris O'Leary]

Do you understand Physics? I mean... Really understand it?

Enlighten me, please.

 

[cshilt]

You're missing the point of the quote. He never said that video analysis wasn't important, just that it wasn't everything.

 

[Chris O'Leary]

For those of you who question the value of setting, holding, and then releasing the hinge angle, consider the clip below of my younger son, who can kick the ball as far as anyone his age and who can consistently, and effortlessly put the ball on the back post...

Why?

P.S. As soon as I saw this, I saw that he was leaving some power on the table. What did I see?

P.P.S. The only thing I taught him was to jump into foot plant. He figured everything else out on his own while playing kickball.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I agree that video has provided us an invaluable insight into swing mechanics that was not available to previous generations. We can now view what the best hitters do and we make our interpretations on what we see or think we see. It has allowed us to debunk myths and long held beliefs on what actually happens.

It is still, however, largely a 2D view into the swing. Rarely do we get top, side, front and back views of the same swing. We can create an amalgamation of a bunch of different swings, but in the end we are still left with our interpretation of what is going on based on our own understanding of what we're looking at.

I received the following from Hitter in an IM a couple of weeks ago and it is an opportune time, I think, to share it:

...if video is so important in teaching and understanding EVERYTHING, then we could watch BB King or Eric Clapton and learn how to play the guitar. Why does it appear to work for hitting and nothing else? Feel must not be important or where the went or the swing starting from the ground up etc.

No one is claiming that the Hanson Principle, by itself, is sufficient … but it is a useful tool to assist in filtering out faulty information. The notion of course is to assist those on their journey in taking more steps forward and less steps backward.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

You're missing the point of the quote. He never said that video analysis wasn't important, just that it wasn't everything.

CS ... I think we all agree that video analysis isn't 'everything'. That's why there has been such a focus towards things like studying "actions under the hood". Video alone is insufficient in many ways ... but to defy video analysis, is IMO, taking a step backwards.

Simply put ... when people bring up the Hanson Principle they are questioning if what is being taught can be visually confirmed or refuted. It's basically just a filter.

 

[MendozaBusta]

Enlighten me, please.

Only if you are open to it.....

 

[Chris O'Leary]

Only if you are open to it.....

Go for it.