Obstruction Question

[NewbieDad]

High School rules. Bases loaded, ball hit softly back to the pitcher. Bang-Bang play for the force out at home. Catcher was on top of plate before receiving the ball, but for the sake of argument we'll say she received the ball BEFORE the runner arrived and any contact was made. Runner slid into home and was blocked from reaching the plate by the catcher, but initiated that slide before the catcher received the ball.

Call from PU was out on the force play. Question from offensive coach was "can she block the plate without the ball?" I could not hear PU's reply, but no obstruction call and call stood.

Umpires, can you please explain how you would answer that question for this scenario. Based on what I have read in other threads, I think I know the answer, therefore I will ask a different one... How do you determine when a runner has been hindered/impeded? The fastest way for this runner to reach home plate would be to run through it like we teach running through first base... there is a reason we tell kids not to slide into first. With the catcher in the way, however, the runner risks ejection and injury to both kids if she remains upright and therefore "has" to slide. Is this not hindering her progress and does it not occur before the catcher has the ball?

If there is no obstruction on this play as described, would there be obstruction if the runner is able to beat the ball to the home plate area but is unable to touch the plate before the force is made?

 

[Comp]

As I just commented on in another thread about obstruction, the defensive players can put themselves anywhere they want. Their position alone is not necessarily obstruction, what they cannot do is impede or hinder the runner without possession of the ball. There are 2 separate criteria that have to be met to actually have obstruction, a fielder not in possession of the ball, and not in the act of fielding a batted ball, and an actual impedement of the runner.

Without seeing the play in person it is hard to give an opinion. Your description of the play leaves out a lot of pertinent information. "Catcher was on top of the plate", this could mean all different kinds of things. Was catcher literally on top of the plate blocking the entire base? Was catcher reaching out for the throw with only one foot on the plate like a typical play at 1st base? Did the runner show any signs of slowing down, altering path or did she make contact with the catcher prior to the catcher having the ball?

 

[djcarter1966]

High School rules. Bases loaded, ball hit softly back to the pitcher. Bang-Bang play for the force out at home. Catcher was on top of plate before receiving the ball, but for the sake of argument we'll say she received the ball BEFORE the runner arrived and any contact was made. Runner slid into home and was blocked from reaching the plate by the catcher, but initiated that slide before the catcher received the ball.

Call from PU was out on the force play. Question from offensive coach was "can she block the plate without the ball?" I could not hear PU's reply, but no obstruction call and call stood.

Umpires, can you please explain how you would answer that question for this scenario. Based on what I have read in other threads, I think I know the answer, therefore I will ask a different one... How do you determine when a runner has been hindered/impeded? The fastest way for this runner to reach home plate would be to run through it like we teach running through first base... there is a reason we tell kids not to slide into first. With the catcher in the way, however, the runner risks ejection and injury to both kids if she remains upright and therefore "has" to slide. Is this not hindering her progress and does it not occur before the catcher has the ball?

If there is no obstruction on this play as described, would there be obstruction if the runner is able to beat the ball to the home plate area but is unable to touch the plate before the force is made?

You have to explain this better since we were not there.

If the runner coming from third full speed and sliding hard and can not touch home plate the catcher is obviously impeding the runner (unless they slid short on there own), it is also odd since you said the catcher is standing on the plate as odd as it sounds she isn't really impeding anything, we have all seen it numerous times catcher on the plate waiting for the throw if it is there it time she catches it like a first baseman then step off quickly since the runner is sliding hard to the plate if the throw is off target or late she steps up. Just trying to square on the plate with stopping a sliding runner.

 

[NewbieDad]

As I just commented on in another thread about obstruction, the defensive players can put themselves anywhere they want. Their position alone is not necessarily obstruction, what they cannot do is impede or hinder the runner without possession of the ball. There are 2 separate criteria that have to be met to actually have obstruction, a fielder not in possession of the ball, and not in the act of fielding a batted ball, and an actual impedement of the runner.

Without seeing the play in person it is hard to give an opinion. Your description of the play leaves out a lot of pertinent information. "Catcher was on top of the plate", this could mean all different kinds of things. Was catcher literally on top of the plate blocking the entire base? Was catcher reaching out for the throw with only one foot on the plate like a typical play at 1st base? Did the runner show any signs of slowing down, altering path or did she make contact with the catcher prior to the catcher having the ball?

Sorry, and I was trying very hard not to use the word "blocked" in my description. Yes, Catcher was literally on top of the plate "blocking" the entire base... she was kneeling on top of the plate, left shin guard covering any sliding lane to the plate, right shin guard on the other side of the plate. Catcher never stood up or had to reach out like a first baseman... more like blocking a ball in the dirt, as it was a quick underhand flip from the pitcher. Closest image I could find quickly looks like this:



Play I described is closer than this, as catcher did not have time to make the tag, but runner ruled out on the force. Also, catcher on the play I described had her chest facing the pitching circle, not toward 3B. Even in this image, you can see that the runner has initiated their slide before the ball has arrived. I understand that the interpretation is the catcher, or any fielder, can be anywhere they want as long as they have the ball before they hinder or impede the runner... your responses to several other threads have made that very understandable. My question is, what constitutes being hindered or impeded. My contention is that yes the runner did slow down and alter her path when she slid. The fastest way for her to get to home is to run straight to the plate and past it like a runner over-running 1B, but the catcher was there (without the ball, yet) and the runner is required to avoid the collision standing up... to avoid that collision she alters her path by sliding, and that alteration takes place before the catcher has the ball. Runner did not slide short on their own... she slid directly into the shin guard, but that took place after, or at the same time, the ball was received. Also, she is not sliding to avoid a tag - this is a force play.

If the next question is, "would she have beat the throw if she continued upright?" then let's say, yes. I think that is probably the most pertinent info and the main reason for my question...I want to teach 12 year olds the best way to handle this situation before they come across it in a State Championship game. Is it better to teach kids to run around home plate (alter your path, but remain as close as possible), avoiding the collision with the catcher but still demonstrating they could have made it on time. Follow-up to that is, assuming PU does signal obstruction and player runs past home plate without touching it, I assume they need to go back and actually touch the plate before heading to the dugout?

Thanks

 

[Comp]

You are getting into complete umpire judgement. Some umpires may rule it obstruction, some may not. Generally speaking, on any close play at a base other than 1st the runner is probably going to be sliding to limit their exposure to a tag. Again, without seeing the play in person I have no idea how I would have ruled, but if it was nothing more than a typical slide into home I may not have considered it to be obstruction.

As to the second part of your question, all bases have to be legally run including awarded bases. If your runner is obstructed she must still touch the base, if they do not they are subject to being called out on appeal.

 

[NewbieDad]

Thank you.