NFHS Courtesy Runner Rule

[RADcatcher]

Good question and possibly one of those type of reoccurring incidences that potentially people don't think has a reasonable reason to not be able to do it.

I've done it for at least 50 games and never had a single coach or ump complain.

...50 games under the radar, until one coach who spoke up...

The last USSSA rulebook I have is 2020 and under that rulebook, no you cannot do that. A courtesy runner must be a player who has not yet participated in the game. Same for USA. USSSA the same courtesy runner cannot run for both the pitcher and catcher in the same inning. Under USA the same courtesy runner may never run for both positions. Once they have run for either position, they can only run for that position.

There are some differences I know for USA under pool play when a team is batting the entire lineup, but Im not sure what exactly those rules are. I believe it is last batted out can courtesy run but do not quote me on it.

Dont know how you have gotten away with it so long if you have been doing that. Someone should have picked up on it by now, especially the umpires if they are paying any attention.

 

[SoftballDad78]

Good question and possibly one of those type of reoccurring incidences that potentially people don't think has a reasonable reason to not be able to do it.

...50 games under the radar, until one coach who spoke up...

Guys, I am batting the whole roster. The rules for courtesy runners is different if you bat your roster. Saying I can only use a runner who has not yet participated in the game is if you are only batting 9. Every plate meeting they say "either" Last Batted Out or Last Completed At Bat.

That's exactly who I am using in BOTH scenarios. It just happens to be the catcher who is the "last batted out" or "last completed at bat".

 

[SoftballDad78]

A quick internet search of the rules... It's all on the internet. I am pulling this directly from www.usssa.com and www.USASOFTBALL.com

USSSA says:

"
Courtesy Runner The coach may use any player who has not been in the lineup as a courtesy runner. If there are no eligible unused substitutes, the coach may use the Last Completed At Bat (LCAB) as a courtesy runner.
"

USA says:

SECTION 10 - COURTESY RUNNERS (Fast Pitch / Modified Pitch) AND MASTERS AND SENIORS FAST PITCH
A. The team at bat may use a courtesy runner:
1. For the pitcher and/or the catcher providing the pitcher or catcher bats for themselves and reaches base safely.
2. Neither the pitcher nor the catcher will be required to leave the game under such circumstances.
3. The same courtesy runner may not run for both the pitcher and the catcher at any time during the game.
4. Defensive changes involving the pitcher or catcher must be reported to the umpire to ensure the correct player may have a courtesy runner.

B. In the top of the first inning only, the pitcher and catcher are identified as those players listed on the line-up as the pitcher or catcher. Thereafter, the pitcher and catcher are identified as the last players who physically played that position on defense. If a substitute enters for the pitcher or catcher in the following offensive half-inning and reaches base safely, should the pitcher or catcher re-enter, the courtesy runner is not permitted for the pitcher or catcher until after their next turn at-bat.

C. Players who are currently in the game or have participated in the game in any playing capacity are not eligible to serve as courtesy runners.
Exception: Junior Olympic Fast Pitch Pool Play and Masters and Seniors Fast Pitch only, any eligible player can be used as a courtesy runner. If this player is on base when it is their time at bat:
1 The player who the courtesy runner is running for will be called out.
2 The courtesy runner will be removed from the base and take their turn at bat.

So the previous comments are not right. I guess we don't know what a friendly game with another team is considered. I wouldn't consider it a "bracket" game. In the end, just about every tournament we play in says the courtesy runner is either the "Last Batted Out" or "Last Completed at Bat" so I'm not sure why that would exclude my catcher. I know, part of the problem with having tournament specific rules. They don't think through all the ramifications.

 

[RADcatcher]

Guys, I am batting the whole roster. The rules for courtesy runners is different if you bat your roster. Saying I can only use a runner who has not yet participated in the game is if you are only batting 9. Every plate meeting they say "either" Last Batted Out or Last Completed At Bat.

That's exactly who I am using in BOTH scenarios. It just happens to be the catcher who is the "last batted out" or "last completed at bat".

I don't pretend to know all the rules, as they change and Vary from different softball venues, but I know after 50 games for somebody to speak up... think it's a good question to be clarified.

Especially if umpires are missing something.

 

[Comp]

The answer is going to depend on if it's pool play or tournament play. For USA Saturday is pool play, Sunday is tournament play. Sat you can use last completed at bat, Sunday you can't. Don't know if USSSA continues to allow batting lineup in tournament play.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Will post citations later tonight … finishing up a college showcase and hitting the road.

The actual answer is “It all depends,” as @Comp said.

Running your catcher for your pitcher may not be illegal in some cases, but it is circumventing the purpose of the rule. HOWEVER, since most orgs only care about your check cashing …

I will admit to going to tournaments that start messing with the book rules and me not enforcing what the tournament publishes. In those cases, I confirm with the coaches at the plate meeting what they want to do … and we stick to that.

 

[Comp]

Learned my lesson a long time ago to follow the rules wether they be book or tournament rules. I don't care what coaches may want or agree to.

I forget the exact situation but had 2 coaches that agreed they wanted to do something that was contrary to rules. Rec league so I didn't care, do what you want as long as you both agree. All fine and dandy until one coach didn't like the outcome he agreed to and then it was all my fault for allowing it. He went to league board and I got a call about why I allowed it to occur. Never again, the game is played by the rules, don't like it don't play.

 

[Bernie]

Reviving the thread again because this is the one that always come sup when I search for this answer.

My catcher is 4th in the lineup, is a really solid athlete and is not the typical slow oaf catcher. I bat her right in front of my pitcher (who is bigger and slower and very likely to get hurt if she slides). I have never had an issue using my C to courtesy for my P. I've done it for at least 50 games and never had a single coach or ump complain. Had a friendly last week and the other coach said "you can't have your catcher run for your pitcher". I can't seem to find ANYTHING that says I can't do that. She was the LCAB, the last out, or whatever you want to call her. Where does it say I can't have my catcher run for my pitcher?

We play USA and USSSA ball. Am I missing something here or am I fine using my catcher to pinch run for the pitcher?

P.S. Don't tell me why the rule exists and I'm, slowing down the whole game. I'm not, my catcher is out on the field 45 seconds after hitting the dugout and is taking the last 2 pitches and throwing down to second. I just want to know if it's legal or not.

You wouldn't have this issue if "your" catcher didn't make so many third outs.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[peter.kottke]

For USSSA you have to read on to get the definition of LCAB:
“The LCAB courtesy runner is determined at the time the courtesy runner is requested, skipping batters
1. currently on base,
2. who are the pitcher or catcher of record, or
3. who have already courtesy run for the other position in the same inning.”
Number 2 is the reason an umpire in USSSA (non-Elite Select Division) when LCAB is eligible to be CR (ie, no sub available) will say the catcher cannot run for the pitcher.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk