Need some help

[Tango]

For me personally, and for the kids I teach, I promote them to snap or whip their elbow more. The more they whip the elbow, the more the wrist and fingers will follow in sequence. So the harder you whip the elbow, the more speed/spin you will create on the pitch (any pitch, not just the drop).

2 things we can never get enough of from students: Elbow whip and push from the rubber.

When throwing the rise, what do you tell them about the elbow whip?

 

[PitchMum]

From my DD's lessons, I picked up the following short reminders about her dropball - "Shorten the stride" (just a few tiny inches), and "Nose over knee" (more of a lean forward, not to bend forward). Nope, I'm not a pitching coach, but these just stuck in my head.

 

[uncdrew]

Sorry to interject into your discussion, the 'drill' posted helps as a 'feel'. Not a 'real'. If you think that the 'rollover' actually has those fingers touching the ball last, i would ask that you show the video of a full speed pitch doing this. These truths that i found in this site many years ago helped me and my DD sift thru the comments to find what was really going on. Just like the screwball that doesn't 'screw' and the riseball that doesn't 'rise', the rollover drop really doesn't 'roll over'.

I'm intrigued by this.

So are they being taught this so they "think" about spin more? Or just being taught wrong?

 

[fanboi22]

I'm intrigued by this.

So are they being taught this so they "think" about spin more? Or just being taught wrong?

Full disclosure the only person i have 'taught' is my DD. I suppose i have also 'taught' myself, but more to learn to teach DD.

That being said, I don't 'teach' the rollover because it is not possible. I was stating (or my understanding of what i thought Sluggers was trying to say or show) that the drill was a 'feel' to get the student to IR faster and get to the proper release location. If you try to do the 'rollover' drill, you will feel your hand have to IR faster to get to the correct release point. In my opinion it is more a cue of what to try and feel though it is in no way possible to ever achieve.

I believe that people who actually think it happens are wrong and their teaching methods are flawed because of it, but in this example because the 'cue' gets the IR done sooner, this incorrect teaching of what the pitcher is doing is actually erroring into a correct pitch.

I think i have stated before, i used the cue with my DD to start IR at 9 oclock. This was to try and get her a better change up, but turned out to be a better drop ball. My change up cue is bad, but used for a drop worked. haha. again, i dont know what i dont know. trial and error. and sometimes better to be lucky than good. I like knowing what actually happens, and then how to translate to DD is another issue all together.

 

[uncdrew]

Full disclosure the only person i have 'taught' is my DD. I suppose i have also 'taught' myself, but more to learn to teach DD.

That being said, I don't 'teach' the rollover because it is not possible. I was stating (or my understanding of what i thought Sluggers was trying to say or show) that the drill was a 'feel' to get the student to IR faster and get to the proper release location. If you try to do the 'rollover' drill, you will feel your hand have to IR faster to get to the correct release point. In my opinion it is more a cue of what to try and feel though it is in no way possible to ever achieve.

I believe that people who actually think it happens are wrong and their teaching methods are flawed because of it, but in this example because the 'cue' gets the IR done sooner, this incorrect teaching of what the pitcher is doing is actually erroring into a correct pitch.

I think i have stated before, i used the cue with my DD to start IR at 9 oclock. This was to try and get her a better change up, but turned out to be a better drop ball. My change up cue is bad, but used for a drop worked. haha. again, i dont know what i dont know. trial and error. and sometimes better to be lucky than good. I like knowing what actually happens, and then how to translate to DD is another issue all together.

I hear ya.

So if we're all reaching concensus agreement on this, it really seems you just IR more and perhaps earlier and you really then have no need for your fastball.

 

[fanboi22]

I hear ya.

So if we're all reaching concensus agreement on this, it really seems you just IR more and perhaps earlier and you really then have no need for your fastball.

I am not convinced you can discount any pitch for the simple fact that it may keep the batter guessing.

I would say it probably depends more on how the hitter is reacting. If the hitter is swinging low all the time expecting the drop, then a less dropping fastball may be able to work. If they are hitting high all the time not able to get down to the drop, then why throw a less dropping fastball right into the path of their bat. If we are assuming that a hitter will usually default to a swing a little higher than a drop and a little lower than a rise, then i would say the fastball is not necessary. If the pitcher doesn't have a rise, and the hitter is swinging low, then maybe a fastball will work.

Again, i have no clue, but just assuming that any given pitch won't work in a particular situation may not be the correct assumption.

Add different speeds in there on each of the above pitches, then i would think you have the makings of a pretty good pitcher. Again, if a hitter is swinging late, why throw a change right into their late swing. My DD got the benefit of a few of those on very fast pitchers. They didn't recognize she was so late, then thru her a change which she connected on.

 

[uncdrew]

My DD has 17 pitches. We don't really need a regular fastball anymore.

My point was more the first part of the sentence: "So if we're all reaching concensus agreement on this, it really seems you just IR more and perhaps earlier."

 

[fanboi22]

My DD has 17 pitches. We don't really need a regular fastball anymore.

My point was more the first part of the sentence: "So if we're all reaching concensus agreement on this, it really seems you just IR more and perhaps earlier."

haha, oops. i gotta shut up more often.......

Yes, i def agree. I also do not think the shorter step nor the forward lean are needed. jmho.

 

[Dwyer Trucking]

What is the best pitch in softball?

 

[Dwyer Trucking]

of all the types of pitches?