More illegal pitches called now in All-Star tournaments?
- Thread starter SoCalSoftballdad
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This is what happens at All Stars and it is why I don't like to see local rules watered down during the season.
Even at 10U, here, teenagers and dads ump all season. Then, when we go to the tournament, the rules are enforced and everyone gets in an uproar.
I don't know what an 8 YO could be doing that is illegal, generally they just step and throw. If she is being taught to "fly", then, yes the ump is going to call it. Perhaps, your rules don't allow for warnings.
Even at 10U, here, teenagers and dads ump all season. Then, when we go to the tournament, the rules are enforced and everyone gets in an uproar.
I don't know what an 8 YO could be doing that is illegal, generally they just step and throw. If she is being taught to "fly", then, yes the ump is going to call it. Perhaps, your rules don't allow for warnings.
- Oct 19, 2009
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I agree that for the younger girls, warnings to the coach, give them a reasonable amount of time to correct the problem; next game or next week what ever, if the problem is not fixed then start calling it. If there is a problem the longer it is allowed the harder it is going to be to fix.
We have a great ump in our area with the younger kids when he makes a call he talks to the player. He will explain to the player why he called what he called, like a kid tagged a sliding runner too high and the runner was safe, he would explain to the fielder on tagging low to get the out.
We have a great ump in our area with the younger kids when he makes a call he talks to the player. He will explain to the player why he called what he called, like a kid tagged a sliding runner too high and the runner was safe, he would explain to the fielder on tagging low to get the out.
Hal, I agree with you - calling IPs on 8u will destroy their confidence. I feel that you need to look at the intention and spirit of the rule, not just plain black and white. Unless something is really blatant in *U rec, warn them and let them learn. Yes, be tougher in all stars, the reason they are there is because they are more advanced players and so should the rules. Amy - you mentioned that dads and teenagers call the games at 10U, we do the same. However, I dont find many that understand the rules well enough to make those calls either - plus call the entire game by themselves.
I work with the local rec leagues and have found that they work hard to get players to be within the rules. They dont "let it go", but instead put the effort into teaching the correct methods. They play the game to enjoy, work to get better. In my experience, the ci=oaches at these levels that want those IPs called certainly dont want the ump to call the rest of the game as tight. Last night at *U I saw more OBS and INT than IPs. BTW - IP is a delayed dead ball.
I work with the local rec leagues and have found that they work hard to get players to be within the rules. They dont "let it go", but instead put the effort into teaching the correct methods. They play the game to enjoy, work to get better. In my experience, the ci=oaches at these levels that want those IPs called certainly dont want the ump to call the rest of the game as tight. Last night at *U I saw more OBS and INT than IPs. BTW - IP is a delayed dead ball.
While I would not, as an umpire, want to discourage the pitcher at a young age, they really do need to learn to pitch legally. What about the girls who ARE pitching legally? What do you say to them? "Sorry Susie. The other girl isn't playing by the rules, but the umpire thinks that's ok."
I agree that considerations should be made for beginning levels. ASA used to have a bunch of special 10U rules. No D3K, no IF, no stealing home, etc. They took them out in 2008, I believe, because it was found that the level of competition was high enough that the rules needed to be enforced. Never, however, did the younger age groups have a special rule that says we shouldn't call IP's. It's part of the game.
That's all fine and dandy, but this can look to some like favoritism. As an umpire, we are instructed NOT to coach. That's the coach's job. By all means, the coach can ask what they did wrong, and we can tell them, but we are not to instruct the girls. That goes for tournament and rec.PEPPERS said:
I'm not a soccer person, but when you say that there is no offsides rule enforced at 10U, does that mean that they don't have the rule at 10U, or that it is not enforced? If the former, then obviously it wouldn't be called... it isn't a part of the rules! IP's are still part of the rules at 10U softball. SoftSocDad, your analogy to the soccer rule is moot.SoftSocDad said:
I agree that considerations should be made for beginning levels. ASA used to have a bunch of special 10U rules. No D3K, no IF, no stealing home, etc. They took them out in 2008, I believe, because it was found that the level of competition was high enough that the rules needed to be enforced. Never, however, did the younger age groups have a special rule that says we shouldn't call IP's. It's part of the game.
Amy - some of the 8U girls are doing two things that are technically illegal. One is getting both the pivot foot and stride foot in the air at the same time. As the pitchers tries to get a bigger stride, the pivot foot is not dragging along the ground but gets airbourne during the leap. Second, I have seen a few girls take a small step with the pivot foot in front of the plate and then go into the delivery (i.e. crow hop). It's a shame because some of these young girls were not taught proper mechanics and are having a difficult time correcting the error. For example, in practice everything is fine but in a game situation they start going back to the old IP mechanics because it is so ingrained in their delivery after months of practice. Another reason to hire PCs to work with your DDs.
PONY is an organization in softball similar to ASA, USSSA, NSA that has tournaments for the different age groups. It's more prevalent in some areas than others.
- May 25, 2010
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It's perfectly ok to tell a kid that a rule is stupid.
Then lets get more game stoppages and in-game coaching from the coaches.
It's quite similar, in that it's a rule that is difficult for young players to understand, given how much else they have to focus on while LEARNING THE GAME.
How many girls start pitching at age 6-7? VERY few. So, the focus really ought to be on the girls simply throwing strikes.
Dump the rule for 8u. It's unnecessary. I know that our league is behind others in California, but I'm confident that our 8u looks a lot like the average 8u around the country in terms of talent and level of play.
At that age, the focus needs to be on participation, not technicalities.
Oh, and the penalty should be 'ball' anyway as opposed to the 'advance 60 feet' thing on the bases.
First off, the umpire should not be yelling dead ball on an illegal pitch. It is a delayed dead ball and the offense has the option of hitting the ball. Only after the pitch has been delivered should the enforcement occur.
As I have learned from umpiring rec leagues, you can tell the coaches all you want their pitchers are illegal and they need to work on it at practice. Next game, pitcher still doing same thing. Next game, yep, still illegal. Until you start enforcing the pitching rules in a game, the coaches will never force them to fix it.
As for the penalty of advancing the runners, it is there to make the consequences of pitching illegally bad enough they wont do it. If it is nothing more than a ball on the batter, why not take the risk of being illegal?
As I have learned from umpiring rec leagues, you can tell the coaches all you want their pitchers are illegal and they need to work on it at practice. Next game, pitcher still doing same thing. Next game, yep, still illegal. Until you start enforcing the pitching rules in a game, the coaches will never force them to fix it.
As for the penalty of advancing the runners, it is there to make the consequences of pitching illegally bad enough they wont do it. If it is nothing more than a ball on the batter, why not take the risk of being illegal?
