Leaping? Or replanting?

[erniekru]

Umpires wouldn't call illegal pitches before the rule change when it was crystal clear when pitchers were leaping. When they occasionally called an illegal pitch (i.e. Makenna Reid) everyone would lose it and claim BS that it wasn't always called on all pitchers who leap (cough, Jordy Bahl). This has been going on forever and hardly ever called.

In travel its even worse. Good luck to any ump who starts calling illegal pitches, coaches and parents become UNGLUED.

Now leaping is allowed, does anyone really think that replants are going to get called? I think Jason (Powerhouse Mech) is being obtuse in his posts, especially because I think he knows the difference. I think this is all "there's no bad publicity"

None of this makes any difference in the end, hitters have to hit the ball. And a little cool story to boot, DD's High School team hosted a double header for the Czech Nat team with DD's team in Nov. The Czech pitcher obviously played to Int'l rules (leap and replant). DD's team adjusted just fine, the hitters still hit.

 

[Hillhouse]

I think some overstate leg drive. 85% of the speed comes from the arm. A longer stride can shorten reaction time. Cannot see much gain from leaping unless it is a replant.

really?? 85%

 

[daywalkerdad]

really?? 85%

What I have read take standing arm circle speed and add 7-10 mph to it.
A pitchers standing velocity of 55 mph should throw 62-65 mph all out. That’s about 85%.

 

[Dabears17]

What I have read take standing arm circle speed and add 7-10 mph to it.
A pitchers standing velocity of 55 mph should throw 62-65 mph all out. That’s about 85%.

In 2016, from a well-respected pitching coach, I heard a pitcher can get about 80-85 pct of their speed from just their arm circle, but since my DD mostly stopped pitching four years ago, I haven't closely kept up with the latest and greatest in pitching instruction since Covid.

It might be less than 80/85pct now because pitchers can start with the stride foot behind the pitching plate. Should be interesting to see what @LEsoftballdad finds out.

 

[LEsoftballdad]

What I have read take standing arm circle speed and add 7-10 mph to it.
A pitchers standing velocity of 55 mph should throw 62-65 mph all out. That’s about 85%.

I'd love to put that theory to the test. Maybe the next time I break out the Pocket Radar, I'll see if that coincides with what you're saying. I also wonder if the same would hold true for an overhand throw. Personally, I think 85% is too high, but the good thing is it can be tested to see.

 

[Dabears17]

@Hillhouse Will do!

I got an email this afternoon that the local high school section will have a call to go over rules interpretations a couple of days after I return from the Umpire School.

I'm not afraid to call a crow hop if I see one that is illegal according to the rule book/casebook/rules supplement. I'm hoping NFHS and USA softball interpretations are the same. A crow hop/replant will be harder to see than a leap. From my limited High School experience, most of the time I think I see a leap or leaving early out of the corner of my eye, the pitcher is legal when I watch closely.

I had an HS AC get on my case last spring about a pitcher who might have had a slight leap a couple of times in the first inning but was 100 percent legal the rest of the game. His pitcher had a 2–3-inch gym step.

 

[Hillhouse]

@Hillhouse Will do!

I got an email this afternoon that the local high school section will have a call to go over rules interpretations a couple of days after I return from the Umpire School.

I'm not afraid to call a crow hop if I see one that is illegal according to the rule book/casebook/rules supplement. I'm hoping NFHS and USA softball interpretations are the same. A crow hop/replant will be harder to see than a leap. From my limited High School experience, most of the time I think I see a leap or leaving early out of the corner of my eye, the pitcher is legal when I watch closely.

I had an HS AC get on my case last spring about a pitcher who might have had a slight leap a couple of times in the first inning but was 100 percent legal the rest of the game. His pitcher had a 2–3-inch gym step.

I would think it's actually easier to see a crow hop. If her foot turns sideways when she's releasing the ball, you have a 90% probability of a crow hop. IF her toes point downward, you have zero % chance.

 

[Hillhouse]

What I have read take standing arm circle speed and add 7-10 mph to it.
A pitchers standing velocity of 55 mph should throw 62-65 mph all out. That’s about 85%.

Well, I don't know where you live. But on the East Coast, and in parts of Wisconsin/Michigan there is a game called "modified pitch" softball. Now there's 2 kinds of modified. 9 man and 10 man.

10 man is exactly as it sounds, an extra fielder. But they also highly highly restrict what the pitcher is allowed to do. No bending the elbow, point the ball towards 2nd, hip and hand need to come through together, etc. It's basically everything taught in H/E mechanics because it restricts the ability to throw hard. In fact, this is one of the biggest/best arguments I make about H/E pitching. The rules required for modified pitch are the same as what H/E coaches instruct.

9man is basically slingshot. Pitchers can throw as hard as they want, throw riseballs, etc. but there's no windmill allowed. You have to generate power with only the slingshot style. I do NOT know if modified pitch has changed the rules and allows pitchers to have 1 foot on the rubber. The USA rulebook might call these games "modified fastpitch" but, it's mostly known as modified pitch.

In the early-mid 2000's, the big money modified sponsors were "hiring" fastpitch pitchers as ringers in tournaments and nationals, etc. I dabbled in it myself at one point for the paycheck. Although I loathe the game. It's basically designed for people who are too ashamed to play slowpitch but also not wanting to play fastpitch. It's very sad. There are some great athletes who could play for the USA team that only had careers in modified. This is like choosing to play in the Arena football league instead of the NFL.

So, as someone who has done both; slingshot and windmill pitching, I can tell you I was no where near 85% when I would sling it. I don't wanna put a % on it but, it wasn't close to 85%.

I simply don't understand how someone could come to that number, and I'm not suggesting you made it up daywalker. I don't recall what % he put on it, but I recall Rick Pauly saying something similar at one point. While I can't remember if I publicly asked Rick about that on here, I remember thinking to myself that his % seemed very high too.

But in today's pitching where only 1 foot has to start on the rubber, and now pitchers can leap, I'd say that 85% stat is more off base today than ever before. I think if the number was that close, you'd still see slingshot pitchers in the world of men's fastpitch. Maybe even women's fastpitch too, Joan Joyce was a slingshot pitcher and she's considered the GOAT. Of course, she wasn't pitching with today's balls and against composite bats!!! And neither were any of the slingshot superstars in the men's game past the early 1970's. About the time aluminum bats came in is when most stopped doing slingshot.

 

[Kraedad]

I'd love to put that theory to the test. Maybe the next time I break out the Pocket Radar, I'll see if that coincides with what you're saying. I also wonder if the same would hold true for an overhand throw. Personally, I think 85% is too high, but the good thing is it can be tested to see.

I'm in line with daywalkerdad. We have measured it. (not a sling shot, but a 3/4 motion) In fact we have struggled with over "striding" (while trying to improve "drive") which has resulted in poor timing, FSR and release posture. These fundamental issues do not help speed, spin or spot.

 

[daywalkerdad]

Well, I don't know where you live. But on the East Coast, and in parts of Wisconsin/Michigan there is a game called "modified pitch" softball. Now there's 2 kinds of modified. 9 man and 10 man.

10 man is exactly as it sounds, an extra fielder. But they also highly highly restrict what the pitcher is allowed to do. No bending the elbow, point the ball towards 2nd, hip and hand need to come through together, etc. It's basically everything taught in H/E mechanics because it restricts the ability to throw hard. In fact, this is one of the biggest/best arguments I make about H/E pitching. The rules required for modified pitch are the same as what H/E coaches instruct.

9man is basically slingshot. Pitchers can throw as hard as they want, throw riseballs, etc. but there's no windmill allowed. You have to generate power with only the slingshot style. I do NOT know if modified pitch has changed the rules and allows pitchers to have 1 foot on the rubber. The USA rulebook might call these games "modified fastpitch" but, it's mostly known as modified pitch.

In the early-mid 2000's, the big money modified sponsors were "hiring" fastpitch pitchers as ringers in tournaments and nationals, etc. I dabbled in it myself at one point for the paycheck. Although I loathe the game. It's basically designed for people who are too ashamed to play slowpitch but also not wanting to play fastpitch. It's very sad. There are some great athletes who could play for the USA team that only had careers in modified. This is like choosing to play in the Arena football league instead of the NFL.

So, as someone who has done both; slingshot and windmill pitching, I can tell you I was no where near 85% when I would sling it. I don't wanna put a % on it but, it wasn't close to 85%.

I simply don't understand how someone could come to that number, and I'm not suggesting you made it up daywalker. I don't recall what % he put on it, but I recall Rick Pauly saying something similar at one point. While I can't remember if I publicly asked Rick about that on here, I remember thinking to myself that his % seemed very high too.

But in today's pitching where only 1 foot has to start on the rubber, and now pitchers can leap, I'd say that 85% stat is more off base today than ever before. I think if the number was that close, you'd still see slingshot pitchers in the world of men's fastpitch. Maybe even women's fastpitch too, Joan Joyce was a slingshot pitcher and she's considered the GOAT. Of course, she wasn't pitching with today's balls and against composite bats!!! And neither were any of the slingshot superstars in the men's game past the early 1970's. About the time aluminum bats came in is when most stopped doing slingshot.

To be clear it is not sling shot, but a full standing windmill. I should probably have said upper body.
I cannot remember exactly where it was from but 90% sure it was from a very prominent pitching coach that the gain was about 10 mph difference. I just took 10 mph off 65. and figured the %.
I can say it works for DD.
I also did not mean to diminish leg drive. I just believe there becomes an arm limitation no matter what the legs/feet are allowed to do.