Jordan Taylor
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When can a pitcher start learning the curve or screw?
- Jul 26, 2010
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It was interesting to hear Ken Ericson explain that she was chosen for the national team not because of her pitching, she actually bombed her tryout, but because she was out there with her catcher working on fixing her issues while the remainder of the tryouts were going on. She was selected because of her work ethic and tenacity.
I admit her pitching mechanics are ugly. At that level and that age, it's too late to fix, you go with the results. She'll never be an Osterman or an Abbot, but she gets the job done vs. the post-Olympic competition.
-W
I admit her pitching mechanics are ugly. At that level and that age, it's too late to fix, you go with the results. She'll never be an Osterman or an Abbot, but she gets the job done vs. the post-Olympic competition.
-W
"the wrist not farther from the body than the elbow"
Never quite understood what it meant, and I've never seen it called. Unless you use a pure "push" style of pitching I don't see how this is even physically possible.
And honestly, if you see a player who is successful at a much higher level than you are used to, and your first thought is "what a terrible mechanics", what do you think is more likely
1. Her mechanics are wrong; or
2. Your idea of what the correct mechanics are is wrong?
More than likely you are mistaking individual style or irrelevant quirks for mechanics. That's actually quite dangerous, because it leads to teaching what looks right over what actually works ("squish the bug" is a good example). There are no style points in softball. If the mechanics are effective and don't cause injury, then they are fine.
Never quite understood what it meant, and I've never seen it called. Unless you use a pure "push" style of pitching I don't see how this is even physically possible.
And honestly, if you see a player who is successful at a much higher level than you are used to, and your first thought is "what a terrible mechanics", what do you think is more likely
1. Her mechanics are wrong; or
2. Your idea of what the correct mechanics are is wrong?
More than likely you are mistaking individual style or irrelevant quirks for mechanics. That's actually quite dangerous, because it leads to teaching what looks right over what actually works ("squish the bug" is a good example). There are no style points in softball. If the mechanics are effective and don't cause injury, then they are fine.
1. The pitcher may not stop, reverse, or make any other movement other than pitching the ball.
2. The pitcher may only make one revolution of the arm on the windmill pitch.
3. The pitcher must pitch underhand and the wrist cannot go farther out than the elbow (no sidearm pitching).
4. When pitching, the pitcher must take one step simultaneous with the release of the ball with the non-pivot foot. The step must be towards the batter. The step also must be WITHIN the 24" of the pithing plate. (No stepping out of "the lane").
5. The pitcher may not push off anywhere but from the pitching plate.
6. The pitcher MUST drag their non-pivot foot and remain in contact with the ground. If there is a hole, they may drag their foot above the hole as long as it's at the same height as the rest of the playing field. (NO leaping or jumping).
7. The pitcher may not drop the ball or roll it in order to prevent the batter from hitting it.
SoCal Officials - Fastpitch Softball Umpires
None of make the rules, I think most of us simply try to understand them and apply them.
2. The pitcher may only make one revolution of the arm on the windmill pitch.
3. The pitcher must pitch underhand and the wrist cannot go farther out than the elbow (no sidearm pitching).
4. When pitching, the pitcher must take one step simultaneous with the release of the ball with the non-pivot foot. The step must be towards the batter. The step also must be WITHIN the 24" of the pithing plate. (No stepping out of "the lane").
5. The pitcher may not push off anywhere but from the pitching plate.
6. The pitcher MUST drag their non-pivot foot and remain in contact with the ground. If there is a hole, they may drag their foot above the hole as long as it's at the same height as the rest of the playing field. (NO leaping or jumping).
7. The pitcher may not drop the ball or roll it in order to prevent the batter from hitting it.
SoCal Officials - Fastpitch Softball Umpires
None of make the rules, I think most of us simply try to understand them and apply them.
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- Jul 26, 2010
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The people that made those rules do not understand female anatomy.
Look at a woman (please use a female shaped like a female, no Dallas Escobido's please), have her hold her hands fingertips down with palms facing forward. Note the position of her elbow vs the position of her wrist. If her arms were straight, she's punch herself in the hips when she walked, unless she's doing a bad cowboy impersonation.
If you pay attention to many conversations on this forum regarding arm whip, internal rotation (IR), and proper pitching mechanics, you will note and observe in the slow motion video of elite pitchers that the elbow leads the downward arm swing and then stops at the pitchers side, allowing the forearm to rotate inward and roll over. This would be nearly impossible to do without the hand being somewhat further out then the elbow.
Because of this flaw of the way the rule is written vs how the human body functions, umpires are faced with the decision between ruling every pitch ever pitched in softball as illegal, or ruling on the intent of the rule which was to disallow sidearm or submarine style pitching.
-W
Look at a woman (please use a female shaped like a female, no Dallas Escobido's please), have her hold her hands fingertips down with palms facing forward. Note the position of her elbow vs the position of her wrist. If her arms were straight, she's punch herself in the hips when she walked, unless she's doing a bad cowboy impersonation.
If you pay attention to many conversations on this forum regarding arm whip, internal rotation (IR), and proper pitching mechanics, you will note and observe in the slow motion video of elite pitchers that the elbow leads the downward arm swing and then stops at the pitchers side, allowing the forearm to rotate inward and roll over. This would be nearly impossible to do without the hand being somewhat further out then the elbow.
Because of this flaw of the way the rule is written vs how the human body functions, umpires are faced with the decision between ruling every pitch ever pitched in softball as illegal, or ruling on the intent of the rule which was to disallow sidearm or submarine style pitching.
-W
The rule addresses a pitching delivery that is known in baseball circles as a submariner's delivery. There have been a few fastpitch pitchers who tried to throw a pitch that looked like an extreme IR delivery, which was actually the same as the baseball submarine pitch. So, the rule makers wrote the rule to assure that the softball delivery was truly an underhanded pitch, not a scaled down baseball pitch. The IR technique can be legal under this rule if the pitcher can keep the arm essentially straight from shoulder to wrist while executing the IR (to keep the hand/wrist close to the leg). But it is nearly impossible to do so when she tries to throw a curve. Is this justification for ignoring the rule -- No -- pitchers will just have to get it done some other way.
Jim
Jim
- Jun 7, 2012
- 49
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Hey, let's push the rubber back another 3-5 feet and let the kids do whatever they want for their delivery! Think of all the money we will save by not having to employ base umps that have to constantly justify their worth by calling crow-hops, leaps, etc.
Jumping in late here, but I agree with Screwball that these pitches are curve balls. I saw that in the delivery, before I saw the rest of the pitch and how it moved from right to left (pitcher's perspective). The third one especially makes it obvious.
That being said, the wrist has to be outside the elbow at least somewhat in order to impart the proper spin, and get the ball "nudged" so it goes a bit to the left at the start, which allows it to break. I don't care how much spin you put on the ball, if you don't get the release right it's not doing to move. The Magnus Effect needs a little help to get going.
That being said, the wrist has to be outside the elbow at least somewhat in order to impart the proper spin, and get the ball "nudged" so it goes a bit to the left at the start, which allows it to break. I don't care how much spin you put on the ball, if you don't get the release right it's not doing to move. The Magnus Effect needs a little help to get going.
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