Illegal step/hop?

[Tango]

Like everyone has said before consistency is the problem. When you call an illegal pitch on a 10U player but not in college it gets old.

 

[MikeP]

I understand why umpires don't call it.

When an umpire enforces the rule, there is always a brouhaha with the coach, and then the fans get rile

Many umpires (and probably many on this board, sorry folks) don't know the difference between a crow hop and a leap. Both are illegal under the rules but, the spirit of the rule was to stop the crow hop. The leap was an unintended consequence that most didn't see coming. Leaping doesn't provide the advantage as crow hopping, take that from someone who not only knows the difference but has pitched with both "styles". As many know, I grew up pitching softball, never playing a single game of baseball in my life. I grew up watching pitchers crow hop. So, monkey see monkey do, right? Then at 18, I went to play in my first International game and not only was that illegal but, I had to keep both feet on the rubber. Folks, that was like starting over and having to relearn how to pitch altogether. It took me months to get the timing right and used to the international rules.

The letter of the law is that if both feet are airborne, the pitch is illegal. The spirit of the rule was to stop crow hopping.

While many male pitching coaches that pitched crow hopped when they threw, I don't know anyone that teaches crow hopping to students (female students). That hasn't stopped some females from learning this technique on their own or from watching someone. But, like the male fastpitch game, crow hopping is infiltrating the women's game because of the technology on the other side: $500 composite bats, polycore center balls that not only never soften, but they are missiles when hit with these bats. It's only been 1 season (2 if you count what he we had last year during covid) where the pitcher can step back of the rubber. Finally a modernization to the pitching rules for the girls. It's still RIDICULOUS that ASA, USSSA, PFG, NCAA and any other alphabet soups can't put their heads together for a single rule for pitching.

But, have you ever noticed it's usually the parent who's kid struck out with a $500 bat that complains the most about the pitcher being "illegal"? If you want pitchers to use 1950's rules of not leaping, jumping, crow hopping, etc. then go back to 1950's bats and balls too. Yea, like that'll actually happen. lol

In the video posted, is that a crow hop? I've never been sure. I assumed a leap was both feet in the air.

 

[sluggers]

In the video posted, is that a crow hop? I've never been sure. I assumed a leap was both feet in the air.

No, it is not a crow hop.

A crow hop is where the pitcher leaps, and then lands on her pivot foot, and then pushes off a second time with the pivot foot. So, there has to be two pushes with the pivot foot. It is legal in men's fastpitch, so it quite common.

The issue for crow hop is always whether the pitcher "pushed off a second time" with her pivot foot. Watch some videos of Kelly Barnhill and you will see that sometimes she does and sometimes she doesn't.

 

[clarity]

No, it is not a crow hop.

A crow hop is where the pitcher leaps, and then lands on her pivot foot, and then pushes off a second time with the pivot foot. So, there has to be two pushes with the pivot foot. It is legal in men's fastpitch, so it quite common.

The issue for crow hop is always whether the pitcher "pushed off a second time" with her pivot foot. Watch some videos of Kelly Barnhill and you will see that sometimes she does and sometimes she doesn't.

I don't recall ever seeing her not push a 2nd time.

 

[clarity]

Fair enough, I was being factious anyway.

But for the sake of clarity, Clairty,... the rules are changing to catch up with the times. You could say some pitchers are ahead of the curve, while others would say they simply cheat, don't play by the rules. Both would be correct, but it depends on your perspective. A lot of people yell at umpires, both for enforcing IP's and not enforcing IPs, they're in a no win situation in many cases. Perhaps you see that as a black and white situation. Let me ask you this,

If your kid was pitching in a game where the umpire was SOOOO terrible, he/she called pitches strikes that were literally bowled on the ground and the catcher had to field like a shortstop, would you tell her to stop? Would you say that's not fair to the other team? Or would you say "throw it where they are calling it!" Now, I realize this isn't an apples to apples comparison but, I'm curious about your response.

I'm not sure I entirely understand the question, but I would not tell my kid to throw ground balls to the catcher even if that's what that particular umpire required for a strike.

 

[Hillhouse]

No, it is not a crow hop.

A crow hop is where the pitcher leaps, and then lands on her pivot foot, and then pushes off a second time with the pivot foot. So, there has to be two pushes with the pivot foot. It is legal in men's fastpitch, so it quite common.

The issue for crow hop is always whether the pitcher "pushed off a second time" with her pivot foot. Watch some videos of Kelly Barnhill and you will see that sometimes she does and sometimes she doesn't.

There's no way to describe to someone who hasn't seen it how hard this guy throws. Difficult to see on camera but, 88mph after that jump is BRINGING IT!!!

 

[Hillhouse]

I'm not sure I entirely understand the question, but I would not tell my kid to throw ground balls to the catcher even if that's what that particular umpire required for a strike.

Why not? How is it different from someone throwing wayyyyy outside but still getting the calls? Wouldn't you want to have your pitcher live there all day, throwing strikes there all day that nobody can touch?

This is not dissimilar from crow hopping. Pitchers are going to do it until they can't. Why? Because EVERYTHING in the game in the last 50 or more years has been to help the hitter. Nothing for the pitcher. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just telling you why they do it.

 

[sluggers]

I don't recall ever seeing her not push a 2nd time.

The NCAA rules is this:

10.5.5 The pitcher is not allowed to hop or drag to a replant (crowhop), gain a second starting point and push off her pivot foot. Once having lost contact with the pitcher’s plate, the pivot foot may trail on the ground but may not bear weight again until the pitch is released.​

Here is a bunch of pitches by Barnhill. I only see a couple where her back foot "bears weight".

 

[clarity]

The NCAA rules is this:

10.5.5 The pitcher is not allowed to hop or drag to a replant (crowhop), gain a second starting point and push off her pivot foot. Once having lost contact with the pitcher’s plate, the pivot foot may trail on the ground but may not bear weight again until the pitch is released.​

Here is a bunch of pitches by Barnhill. I only see a couple where her back foot "bears weight".

100% "bears weight" every pitch. When her right knee re-flexes you know there has been a 2nd push. She does it every single time. And you don't need slo-mo or freeze frame to see it. It's plain as day in real time. You just have to actually be watching.

But I'm calm about this now, lol. I know it's not going to be called. I am peace with it now. Like I said above, after 6 years of this, our pitching coach is starting to teach my daughter the Monica Abbott cheat step. If everyone else is cheating, we need to be too. It's like the steroid era.

 

[radness]

Stop whining
And put the ball in play