Illegal pitching-no call??

[SonicMojo]

You can talk about angles of joints, direction of feet, etc. but none of those things are illegal by rule. They may be hints that something illegal is occurring, but they are not illegal in and of themselves.

So if you're not allowed to look for a crow hop to determine if the pitcher has crow hopped, how do you know if it happened?

 

[BktMom3]

Are you kidding me? As an umpire it’s nearly impossible to see that leap. We’re trained not to guess a call. There definitely is no crow hop! There might be a leap, but there isn’t a replant with a separate impetus, which would constitute a crow hop.

Why is it always the losing coach or parent that complains of an illegal pitch? With slow motion it’s difficult to detect. In real time it’s impossible!! Not to dump on the poster, but I get dismayed when over


You said it! If a girl is being lit up like a Christmas tree, nobody mentions anything illegal. But if it is a great picture, then everyone is looking for even the smallest technicality to try and rattle the pitcher. What bothers me the most is whatever happened to sportsmanship. Let the girls play.

You may have missed one of my posts, where I said we’ve encountered teams we’ve beaten or poor pitchers, whose foot drag was more than questionable and it was not called. Umpires who attend the certification clinic in our area at least, will allow certain things to slide with poor pitchers, to move the game along. I attended a clinic once (I am NOT certified) and the head umpire told us if the game is dragging on, then speed it up by being more generous with calls/judgements. Then on the other side of the coin, there is the school of thought that a well know pitcher can’t possibly be doing anything illegal, so officials overlook things. Perhaps they get caught up in watching the game or watching the “good” pitcher throw strikes. I don’t know. I’m not in that position.
In this case, it’s certainly not a parent or coach complaining only because we lost. We batted well this game and could have won it, with one less mistake in the field, here or there. The video was taken at the beginning of the game. Not the end or when we were down a bunch of runs.

Be rest assured, that I get annoyed, or whatever, with any illegal pitch, no matter who is throwing it, winning or losing. I try to study the pitchers, since I’m trying to help my DD, by showing her videos of what other girls are doing. So, I guess I’m more likely to pick up on the nuances of a pitcher.

 

[BT3100]

It's funny.. whenever we see these girls pitching illegal and they get called for it they do what barnhill did.. they fall apart in the game.

 

[MNDad]

I actually have a bigger issue with posting a video of somebody’s minor kid without their knowledge or consent and ripping her apart.

It always amazes me when people use slow motion or still pictures to “prove” a girl is illegal. If it can’t be seen in real time it’s never going to be called.

 

[BktMom3]

I actually have a bigger issue with posting a video of somebody’s minor kid without their knowledge or consent and ripping her apart.

It always amazes me when people use slow motion or still pictures to “prove” a girl is illegal. If it can’t be seen in real time it’s never going to be called.

I’ll bite:

1. Freedom of Press
2. Video shot in a Public venue
3. Video not being used for commercial or exploitive purposes
4. Individuals and venue in video can not be readily identifiable. Faces, names, etc are blurred.
5. Who said her age? Maybe she’s 18. Maybe she lives on her own.
6. No one is ripping the girl apart

So back the (explicit) off and don’t comment if you’re here just to stir up trouble.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Going to try to make a conscious effort to avoid the drama queen antics in this thread ...

To one of your points BuktMom ...

Then on the other side of the coin, there is the school of thought that a well know pitcher can’t possibly be doing anything illegal, so officials overlook things. Perhaps they get caught up in watching the game or watching the “good” pitcher throw strikes.

Another theory is that calling that “well known” pitcher will result in the umpire no longer getting game assignments from that “well known” school/coach.

Without going down another rabbit hole, I have seen that in action.

Yes, I will confess I will overlook things in bad games to keep them moving. Having said that, I will still talk to the coach and the player to tell them what is being done illegally. I may not call it, but I address it and look for an effort to correct it. The next game I have them and still see it, I am not as lenient.

 

[The Man In Blue]

That's fine. Let the girls play!
Don't call slappers out for being out of the box. Let the girls play!
Don't call runners out for leaving bases early. Let the girls play!
Don't call catcher's interference. Let the girls play!
Don't call obstruction. Let the girls play!
Don't call girls out for not tagging up. Let the girls play!
Don't call girls out for missing bases. Let the girls play!
Don't call strike three. Let the girls play!
Don't call the batter out if the first baseman pulled her foot off the bag. Let the girls play!
Don't call batted balls foul. Let the girls play!

There was a day when umpires were true arbiters of the game. They were not there to make safe and out calls, they were there to rule only when the teams could not agree on a call.

Then the role evolved and we were there to act as rule enforcer and judge. There are different theories from umpires on what that means — am I there to issue judgment on every aspect of the game OR am I there to issue judgment on what is best for the game?

This next bit is neither 100% accurate nor fair, but should be said anyway ... There is a sentiment from umpires today is that parents and coaches feel we are there to be used as a weapon to help gain an advantage for their team. That pitcher is destroying us, you need to call her illegal pitches! Oh come on though, you are going to call that on my pitcher!? She’s done that all year and nobody has called that! The perception is there that coaches and parents neither want nor understand the role of the arbiter.

I’m pretty sure I have told this story on her before, but it is relevant, so here you go again:

Many moons ago I ran our summer rec program. After a few years of putting up with coaches’ BS and listening to parents berate teenage kids umpiring 8u softball, I informed the coaches we were no longer going to use umpires for those games. I was no longer going to put our daughters and sons out there to be abused for $15.

One particular coach was outraged. She asked “Who is going to call the game then!?”

Me: “You guys are.”

Coach: “You mean I have to come up here on nights when my team doesn’t play to umpire other teams’ games?”

Me: “No. You will umpire your own games.”

Coach: “I can’t do that, I’m too busy watching my players and coaching my team to make calls. Who am I supposed to yell at when I don’t agree with the call?”

Me: “First, why are you yelling at anybody? Second, if you didn’t watch the play because you were too busy coaching, why are you disagreeing with anything? That is exactly why we are doing this.”

Umpires are there to work with you for the sake of the game and the kids. We aren’t there to work for you or against you. We are there for the game, not the victory or the loss.

A popular epithet these days is “Nobody came to see you Blue!” No, no they didn’t. (Unless my wife happened to come, but usually she still came to watch the game, not me.) Umpires also don’t come to the game for the parents or the coaches, especially when they make the game about them.

 

[MNDad]

I’ll bite:

1. Freedom of Press
2. Video shot in a Public venue
3. Video not being used for commercial or exploitive purposes
4. Individuals and venue in video can not be readily identifiable. Faces, names, etc are blurred.
5. Who said her age? Maybe she’s 18. Maybe she lives on her own.
6. No one is ripping the girl apart

So back the (explicit) off and don’t comment if you’re here just to stir up trouble.

Not here to stir up trouble. It’s just not cool to post video of a HS kid and criticize or accuse her of rule breaking.

Legal in the eyes of the law doesn’t make it right. Terrible sportsmanship is legal. Being a (explicit) is legal. Most sites, including this one, have or have had policies against posting video of other people’s minors or even HS kids of unknown age.

 

[BktMom3]

Not here to stir up trouble. It’s just not cool to post video of a HS kid and criticize or accuse her of rule breaking.

Legal in the eyes of the law doesn’t make it right. Terrible sportsmanship is legal. Being a (explicit) is legal. Most sites, including this one, have or have had policies against posting video of other people’s minors or even HS kids of unknown age.

Well, I can’t even find the stupid video that all the fuss is about, so you win. I’m technologically challenged, otherwise I’d post it again. (Comment #49 has it for some reason.) Perhaps it’s this site’s policy, but it’s not illegal within certain parameters.

It’s one thing to watch a professional or high level college pitcher, but sometimes it’s not real helpful because for my DD, at least, she sees that as unattainable at this point. The big leaguers seem invincible. Watching someone with decent or poor mechanics, at a lower level like HS or even JH, makes it more realistic, like she could do that (or not do that if it’s illegal.)

No harm was meant. We’re just trying to learn more from softball people who are more experienced than us. I understand what you are getting at, but posting it was not for malice.

 

[Comp]

The problem with posting it for "softball people" to comment on is you are going to get 8 pages of their opinion that most of the time has nothing to do with the rules.

You have maybe 3-4 actual umpires that have commented with regard to the video and if Im not mistaken every one of them has said more or less that nothing in the video is definitively illegal and if you have to super slow motion the video or freeze frame it to try and find a violation then it isnt there.