Look up videos of male pitchers, particularly Adam Folkard to see a true replant. You'll also notice the tell-tale arm circle hitch.
Here's a good one:
Illegal pitching-no call??
- Thread starter BktMom3
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Look up videos of male pitchers, particularly Adam Folkard to see a true replant. You'll also notice the tell-tale arm circle hitch.
Here's a good one:
Top_Notch
Screwball
- Dec 18, 2014
- 522
- 63
To the op, it's illegal. It's a leap, not a crow hop as previously mentioned. It's can be difficult to call because if there is a hole in front of the pitching rubber, the foot can lose contact with the ground and not be illegal as long as it doesn't go higher than the pitching rubber.
The form is bad and wastes energy upwards instead of towards the batter. My daughter got called on this one time by an irate opposing coach. My daughter fixed her form and actually picked up speed. I told the coach he would have been better off to not saying anything. However, when the pitcher is getting hit hard, nothing is said. If the pitcher is mowing them down then all of sudden everyone is worried about illegal pitches and looking through the rule book.
The form is bad and wastes energy upwards instead of towards the batter. My daughter got called on this one time by an irate opposing coach. My daughter fixed her form and actually picked up speed. I told the coach he would have been better off to not saying anything. However, when the pitcher is getting hit hard, nothing is said. If the pitcher is mowing them down then all of sudden everyone is worried about illegal pitches and looking through the rule book.
In all the years we've played the only IP's were called on misc things like hands breaking or not taking the signs correctly,etc. Not one was called for crow hopping or not having both feet in contact with mound. IP's are called about as often as someone leaving early on a steal.
Another feckless umpire not doing their job. What a shock!
My belief as well.
A crow-hop or replant is getting that back foot down so you can push off it again, but this time closer to the mound.
The girl in the video isn't doing that. What she's doing is simply doing her drag a little above the ground. She's not gaining any advantage at all.
Part of the reason this isn't called is because we all so often play at fields with dips, divots, holes, and outright craters around the pitching mound. We simply can't/shouldn't/won't expect the pictures to drag their back foot across all of that and keep contact with the ground at all times.
Bummer you lost though. I'd look to defensive mistakes and lack of hitting as the culprits, as that's what it often is.
Oh yes. My comment about losing by one was a side note, sort of. Our team played very well this game. She leaped every pitch. She is considered a top pitcher in our area, so one would think mechanics would be very sharp. It wasn’t a one time deal. The video is poor quality, but I spotted it with the naked eye. I’m not an expert, but I knew what she was doing was different, which is why I videoed. Just a bit frustrating when I’m trying to help my own DD and she sees this and views it as unfair and our hands are tied. If it’s going to be a no call, then why not teach girls to leap, crow hop, etc?
In my short coaching career, I've mostly come to terms with illegal pitches and told my team and parents that we need to hit all pitchers, not have the umps save us. Yes, it's frustrating but if I don't feel the pitcher is getting an advantage, I'm not going to fight it.
So what made this pitcher good? Speed? Location? Spin?
I think speed and location mainly. But, our bats hit her a good number of times, which is surprising, because we are struggling with the bats. And she’s just looks very athletic. She is athletic for sure. I guess it’s her look and her speed. She has very good defense behind her, as well. She’s maybe hitting double nickels. Most in this area are 50-52. Our part of the state is not super competitive. Don’t get me wrong, we have players in the area that have occasionally gone D1, D2.
Because I’m a parent still at the “student” level, I really watch pitchers closely, good or bad. Two pitchers we have faced, leap. The others have not. Some good pitchers we have faced, don’t leap. Some bad ones do. Either way, a rule is a rule. I’m a stickler for them, but it sounds like a battle I won’t pursuit anymore.
- May 29, 2015
- 3,813
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How about a video from an actual rule making source?
I have to admit I learned something from this. NFHS is using the separation of the hands as the defining point between a legal drag and a crow hop. I’m not quite sure that I agree, as the foot/leg/body motion is essentially accomplishing the same thing as it is in the “fulcrum” move.
To me, it looks like this guy is doing the fulcrum. However in slo-mo you can see that his arm movement is significantly delayed to where he is not starting his arm motion until he has hit the fulcrum point.
Last edited:
- May 29, 2015
- 3,813
- 113
The Barnhill pitch is the “fulcrum” movement previously described. It can look like a crow hop, but it is not as long as the drag foot does not replant and push.
The Monica Abbott pitch is a crow hop with no hop. She is lifting her drag foot, stepping forward (losing contact with the plate), replanting her foot, and pushing from that point. By definition, a crow hop.
NFHS Definitions:
SECTION 16 CROW HOP A crow hop is the replant of the pivot foot prior to delivering the pitch. The crow hop is an illegal pitch.
SECTION 33 LEAP A leap is when both feet are airborne by the pitcher prior to delivering the pitch. A leap is an illegal pitch.
And the rule in question:
c. The pivot foot may remain in contact with or may push off and drag away from the pitching plate prior to the front foot touching the ground, as long as the pivot foot remains in contact with the ground and within the 24-inch length. If a hole has been created in front of the pitcher’s plate, the pivot foot may be no higher than the level plane of the ground. Pushing off with the pivot foot from a place other than the pitcher’s plate is illegal.
I would also suggest SonicMojo should take up umpiring since it is so easy to see illegal pitches. (Clue: It’s not always.)
