I/R question
- Thread starter Gameday
- Start date
Welcome to Discuss Fastpitch
Your FREE Account is waiting to the Best Softball Community on the Web.
- May 17, 2012
- 2,805
- 113
I wouldn't call it a method as much as I would call it the foundation of pitching.
You can throw all pitches with some form of I/R short of off speed pitches (so you limit the I/R). See Ricky Pauleys shove change.
To those pitchers that throw without IR, just think how good they could be if they actually knew what they were doing.
Just my opinion.
The rise and screw have what Rick Pauly calls a slice, where the palm stays open rather than rotating to palm forward, and of course the aforementioned shove change (which is my preferred method of a cu btw)
But even the rise and screw have the foundation of a tight, locked in elbow and some i/r within the shoulder joint, they just don't have the continued rotation of the forearm
But even the rise and screw have the foundation of a tight, locked in elbow and some i/r within the shoulder joint, they just don't have the continued rotation of the forearm
CJ
Good description. Here are a couple more thoughts.
A general statement would be that pitches thrown with the intent of offsetting gravity (rise/curverise/screwrise) are an attempt to counteract the natural I/R movements that your shoulder/elbow joint (upper arm/forearm) want to make. This is probably the number one reason it is difficult to learn a rise or a curve....your natural mechanics just get in the way. The farther forward of mid-throwing thigh the ball hand/ball release moves, the more the joints naturally move in an I/R fashion.
IMO, downward moving pitches that work with gravity (fastball, drop, dropcurve, most change-ups) are most effective when I/R is encouraged.
Additionally, IMO the principles of Brush Interference should not change regardless of what pitch is being thrown.
Good description. Here are a couple more thoughts.
A general statement would be that pitches thrown with the intent of offsetting gravity (rise/curverise/screwrise) are an attempt to counteract the natural I/R movements that your shoulder/elbow joint (upper arm/forearm) want to make. This is probably the number one reason it is difficult to learn a rise or a curve....your natural mechanics just get in the way. The farther forward of mid-throwing thigh the ball hand/ball release moves, the more the joints naturally move in an I/R fashion.
IMO, downward moving pitches that work with gravity (fastball, drop, dropcurve, most change-ups) are most effective when I/R is encouraged.
Additionally, IMO the principles of Brush Interference should not change regardless of what pitch is being thrown.
Thanks for everyone's input! I'm just a bucket dad trying to understand all of this. My daughter is 12 and has been pitching since she was 9 and taking it serious for a little over a year now. We have been to 2 or 3 pitching coaches and they all have there way of pitching ( better known as H/E ) and she would struggle with speed and accuracy, and me just being a bucket dad I would fall in line with the pitching coach to insure she done all the drills they ask her to do! So now she's twelve she tells me "dad this just isn't working" I start googling around and discover discuss fastpitch and I/R in the class room!! From catching her all this time this is what she's been naturally trying to do since the first pitch. She has found her speed and spin again and doing well besides missing to right now and then, but as someone posted on here that's not a bad thing! I thank everyone on this forum sharing all this valuable info!! To bad I didn't discover this when she was 9!!
It is helpful to think of "IR pitching motion" as the the entire pitching motion. Part of the IR pitching motion is pronation of the forearm. (Pronation of forearm = palm down after release.)
All pitches should use most of the IR pitching motion. Pitches such as the screw do not use pronation of the forearm.
All pitches should use most of the IR pitching motion. Pitches such as the screw do not use pronation of the forearm.
Got to disagree with you on this one sluggers. May be splitting hairs here but isn't IR a description of a specific motion of the upper arm (humerus) that is requisite for ALL pitches? And isn't pronation of the forearm a common technique used with most but not all pitches? I see this an important concept that will cause confusion unless it is uncoupled. I would agree that pronation of the forearm should be taught at the same time as IR and should be the default motion, but it is not possible with all pitches.
What is the recommendation then with the rise pitches mentioned (rise/curverise/screwrise). A later release creates more upward angle but the later release combats natural IR which could hamper proper spin BUT release the pitch too early and you might get good spin but no upward angle.
Thoughts...please...we want to get this rise thing working and with a working understanding.
I've mentioned this a bunch here.
Hopefully the correct message coming from other sources might make it sink in a little better...
Java has made it plain as day, from a biomechanical standpoint.
IR is the inward rotation of the humerus.
A lot of the other important aspects (especially palm-up at 9:00) of the arm-circle are stressed precisely to insure the humerus in the correct position to maximize IR just before and leading into release.
Drive mechanics is not "IR"
Forearm pronation is not "IR"
Brush interference is not "IR"
All important to good pitching, but IR is internal rotation of the humerus. That's it.
