How the elbows work

[pstein]

It seems to me that ER at this point is a reaction not an action. In other words, it is something that happens not something you do.

Forcing ER to happen would require activating or tightening muscles while allowing it to happen (then stopping it appropriately or fusing it) would be a response from loose muscle required to whip or throw effectively.

Feel like you're using the hands, and you won't have to worry about the elbows.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Ironically, he avoided one form of bat drag, but created another.

I tend to agree. IMO they were both swings inclusive of 'bat drag' ... 'bat drag' is 'bat drag', ... but the proposed approach covered up the downstream checkpoint that was being used to detect 'bat drag'. Bat drag wasn't actually fixed by that approach, but the indicator being used was made 'prettier'.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

RichK, LeftieD, Pstein … I can’t stress enough that the ER portion is extremely brief. I recall describing to TomG that my feel was that ER needed to be completely fused/frozen out within the first two inches or so of the elbow being lowered. When I performed experiments using cues, and placing feel sensors in various places, … including feel sensors between ER usage and hand usage, I found that while there was a sequential firing action, that they were so tightly close together in time, that it was nearly impossible to have a focus on both simultaneously. It was my belief that the focus should be on the hands, and that one should find a proper live-and-independent action that leads to a stretch-and-fire like setup from which to fire the hands.

 

[Wellphyt]

I assume you mean "hands correctly to turn the barrel" rather than "arms correctly to turn the barrel". I want the feeling in the hands, not the arms.

I am trying to be true to jbooth

I also want the feeling in the hands. When I throw a ball, I can feel the weight of the ball in my hand. When I swing a bat I want to feel the weight of the bat in my hands.

 

[softballphreak]

Since ER of the humerus is not something you do, but rather something that happens when you are doing something else (like hand action) it really doesn't merit discussion; a mention maybe, but certainly not worth discussing. Maybe mentioning it as a feeling instead of something you see would be a better way to describe it.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I hear you Softballphreak. I'd say out of every 50 kids I work with, that I'll mention ER to approximately one of them ... ... ... and I'll generally do that while covering the live-and-independent action. I take note, that recent video of the last hitter I mentioned it to, shows virtually no detectable ER action. IMO there should be more of a focus with setting up for a stretch-and-fire type launch and firing the hands from there.

 

[rdbass]

I think about IR elbow/arm or raising my back elbow when I forward by coil, but when I am supposed to ER / slot my elbow or when I'm ER I am thinking more about my hands.I feel more of what my hands are during. Such as turning the bat behind me as I start my swing forward. I think more about raising the bat, then I do thinking about "slotting" the bat.No thought about ER my thought is all about my hands doing the work from this point.Is that close?

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Good Rdbass. Another similar approach is to transfer ownership/control from the lower body (as in the lower body running start) to the upper body (hands).

 

[Wellphyt]

ER as a cue when discussing slotting of the elbow is a bad cue IMO. The ER in slotting seems to be a "feel" rather than an action. Or a subtle action maybe. ER rotation certainly isn't visibly obvious as the elbow slots.

Agree that ER isn't a good cue. I do however agree with Dr. Yeager that there is a benefit in hitters knowing how the long bone in the upper arm moves to set up the throw of the barrel.

I see ER in lots of swings:

 

[pstein]

I tend to agree. IMO they were both swings inclusive of 'bat drag' ... 'bat drag' is 'bat drag', ... but the proposed approach covered up the downstream checkpoint that was being used to detect 'bat drag'. Bat drag wasn't actually fixed by that approach, but the indicator being used was made 'prettier'.

Yes, agreed. I'd also venture that most high-level swings are on the verge of the elbow getting ahead of the hands. It's not a good checkpoint because it's seen in some very good MLB hitters.