How not to "Hide the pitch"

[sluggers]

You object to teaching the kids how to figure this stuff out on their own?

 

[mrslug01]

I'm not a big fan of the coach yelling out to the girls what's coming. As a hitter, I wouldn't want it. Let's say the 3rd base coach THINKS he sees a change and yells out my name and I sit change and she throws a fastball. Time to sit down. My younger one pitches. We were playing U14 this year during the fall. I wasn't being particularly discreet with the signs and the other team took to calling the pitches out. They couldn't hit my DD anyway so I wasn't worried. None the less, I changed signs at end of first inning and the team spent the entire next inning yelling out the wrong location and pitch selection. Made our life even easier. And coaches thinking they know what's going on at 3rd can often be fooled. My DD throws her change with knuckles on it. But you can start all pitches with knuckles on the ball. If you do it indiscreetly and show change up, then at the last minute, change grips, it can be an advantage. If you watch enough baseball you this all the time. A pitcher that throws a split finger always starts with that grip and changes to a fastball grip at the last minute. Ultimately if a girl wants to become a good hitter, she needs to be able to recognize the pitches herself, hit good strikes, foul off others.

 

[CoachFP]

Kids won't figure out any of this on their own, especially girls. Most college players are oblivious to the inside part of the game. Too busy cheering and singing. Good coaches are hard to find and should one show up, you guys want to leave it up to the girls to figure stuff out on their own.

 

[halskinner]

Kids won't figure out any of this on their own, especially girls. Most college players are oblivious to the inside part of the game. Too busy cheering and singing. Good coaches are hard to find and should one show up, you guys want to leave it up to the girls to figure stuff out on their own.

I dont ever recall seeing a young player spot things like this and yell out anything to their hitter at bat. I HAVE seen, hundreds of times, young players spot something the other pitcher was not concealing well and quietly whisper and spread the word to the rest of the team on the bench. They dont want to yell it and let the other coaches/team know that they KNOW these things, they would never give up the advantage.

Same thing goes for a catcher that sets up too soon or lets the call be known by not concealing it well enough.

My experience has taught me that these young girls are WAY, more intelligent than most coaches, instructors and even their own parents give them credit for. Once they know what to look for and they see it happening, those young kids LOVE having a little mental edge over the other team because it is a HUGE confidence builder.

"We know something about this pitcher that she doesnt know we know. We're gonna own this one!".

 

[mrslug01]

Kids won't figure out any of this on their own, especially girls. Most college players are oblivious to the inside part of the game. Too busy cheering and singing. Good coaches are hard to find and should one show up, you guys want to leave it up to the girls to figure stuff out on their own.

I respectfully disagree. My DD is a Sr in HS and is signed to Play DII next year. Very good hitter. We've talked about the inside part of the game for years and I've also talked to other girls at that age group and level. The better players are looking for advanatges. Things is, these advantages are only good if you are correct and discreetly picked up on and used.

 

[sjsss]

Last year in high school ball my team played the #1 team in division 6A. The opposing team's coach, who is also an accomplished ASA travel ball coach takes great pride in picking pitch signs. I let him see my signs for 7 innings, we won the game 3-0 using a slightly above average pitcher who is one of my students. The focus and energy expended on trying to gain an advantage can distract a coach instead of give him the edge he seeks. The same is true for players – they need to focus on doing their job and knowing what is taking place in the game. Most are fully employed just doing this. Obsessing over picking signs or grips is in most cases counter-productive and is not how you win games, percentage wise.

 

[sluggers]

From CoachFP:

Kids won't figure out any of this on their own, especially girls. Most college players are oblivious to the inside part of the game. Too busy cheering and singing. Good coaches are hard to find and should one show up, you guys want to leave it up to the girls to figure stuff out on their own.

So, basically girls are stupider than boys. Therefore, they are unteachable. ? It is lucky for them we have coaches to tie their shoes for them.

The problem is that some coaches are lazy, control freaks who want to sit on their bucket and pretend to do something meaningful rather than TEACH the game.

 

[alexander58]

Kids won't figure out any of this on their own, especially girls. Most college players are oblivious to the inside part of the game. Too busy cheering and singing. Good coaches are hard to find and should one show up, you guys want to leave it up to the girls to figure stuff out on their own.

In a game years ago, I saw a 12u player steal signs and let the other girls know in the 1st inning. It was all on her, with no encouragement from anyone else. We as coaches, infuse ourselves into the game the girls play enough ,as it is. A coaches' proudest moments should be when kids do something instinctive on their own. That doesn't mean some of the kids don't have great difficulty thinking on their feet, but it doesn't mean we quit trying.If at some point, I could just roll a ball out on the field, and have the girls figure it all out for themselves, I'd be satisfied I did my job.

 

[Hillhouse]

Sluggers, I think what FPCoach is saying is that girls are not TAUGHT this facet of the game. As a result, they sing, chant, etc it the dugout. With the hitters that I throw live BP to, this is part of the training. Reading me and what I do differently for each pitch. It's amazing how foreign this process is to them in the beginning.

MrSlug, I think most hitters would like to know what pitch is coming. To say you don't want someone telling you the pitch is like letting yourself be at a disadvantage. Obviously a coach who is getting the pitches wrong isn't actually reading the pitcher. But anyone at the top level of softball will tell you that it only takes 1 time to get 1 pitch right and the game could be over with a swing of the bat. With this said, it's the pitchers job (and his/her teammates) to be watching/listening to know if the other team is calling pitches. If so, an adjustment needs to be made. My team lost the ASA Major Nationals this year to a team that beat us twice in the finals. They had our catcher picked and would call out our pitches. The catcher was doing something subtle and we didn't know what it was. We (pitching staff) knew it wasn't US because no matter who was pitching, they were still yelling the pitches. But we couldn't figure out what the catcher was doing wrong.

So I agree with you that it COULD work against you to yell out the wrong thing. But that's when a GOOD coach won't do that. Moreover, it gets into a pitchers head like you cannot imagine when we know the other team KNOWS our pitches before we throw them. That aspect cannot be overlooked.. psyching out the pitcher!

 

[Mark H]

What he said.

Reading the pitcher and discernment of repetitive pitch sequences and tendencies is the next area most ripe for improvement in girls fp after swing mechanics imo.