Help with DD Push/Drive

[okie]

I've scoured the net and tried several different things with none of them really helping. As with most "opinions" on technique, opinions vary wildly from site to site. I have grown fond of this site and love the wide range of experience and opinions here so I was wondering if anyone had any advice for improving the drive and extension in my DDs pitching motion.

My DD is 8 and began pitching 3 months ago as she has moved up to 10U. She has started taking lessons but this child is not patient enough to wait. Her biggest problem to me is her finish, its inconsistent with her arm and elbow all over the place from pitch to pitch. Shes working on it but really, really, really bugging me to help her figure out how to get more drive and power. We've played 4 games so far and up until this weekend the majority of the pitchers were at or close to the same level of consistency (or inconsistency) as my daughter. For an 8 year old she throws pretty hard, usually clocking 35-40 on her fastball and she was pretty happy with her progression by comparing herself to some of these 9 or 10 year old pitchers.

Saturday we played in a tournament and we faced an 11 year old (was still 10 on January 1st so still eligible for 10U) girl who was throwing 50 mph fastballs. When my daughter caught up to the fastball the girl hit her with the meanest changeup ive seen (lol, made her look foolish, lol). Where most of the girls in our league are just trying to throw strikes, this girl was painting corners and looked great. The problem is, my daughter has not shut up about it since and spent most of the day Sunday throwing into her net, was sitting on the porch with her ball and glove when i got home from my 12 hour shift ready to throw and at 7:45 on her way to school this morning had already called me to find out if i will take her to practice before her game at 6:00. This girl has always been the best player on the field and always loved putting in work towards her sports but damn. Seeing how a pitcher can completely dominate a game with very little help around her has lit a fire under my DDs rear and now she wants to be "that" pitcher at 8 years old.

Normally i wouldnt complain because i love the self motivation and drive but the reality is, i dont know where and how to help her. Her coach has made it clear that at this age her focus should be on her upperbody, lower body will come later but this is not an answer that my DD has accepted. Her exact response to her coach was hilarious, "if im going to do it, i need to learn to do it all right, not just part of it, isnt that what you told me"..........while funny, i dont think her coach was happy at all. My opinion on the issue is, i dont think it hurts to work on both, as long as one isnt negatively impacting the other.

Sorry, done rambling and on to the issue at hand. My DD wants to step and turn her hips rather than drive through the pitch, that combined with her inconsistent finish has a tenancy to leave the ball to the right:

1. Any suggestions on drills to improve leg drive

2. Her coach wants her to finish with her elbow pointing at the batter. In an effort to do this, her arm often kicks out to the right and then slides back in. She has a much higher consistency finishing across her body rather than elbow straight at target so my question is, is the "hello elbow" philosophy right or is it common to finish across your body in the natural motion?

below is the video, sorry about the quality but im new at this and figured seeing it might help more than me rambling about it:

 

[JJsqueeze]

first of all...if her attitude is as you described, then she has an advantage over almost everyone. You cannot teach that sort of drive so hats of to her for that.

As for her being patient, she will need to temper that impatience a little or she will give up pitching as the results do not come easily for most. At this point, her full pitch is pretty rough, but that is not a big issue, she is 8 after all. I recommend you keep it fun and just play a lot of underhand catch with her to get her more fluid and comfortable and give her a good mental image of what a pitch feels like you can do this while using the drills from the I/R in the classroom thread. Do not focus on accuracy AT ALL, just let her learn to throw a ball underhand.

I do not recommend that you focus on leg drive just yet. I would focus on her upper body getting into better positions (stronger glove side that more closely mirrors her throwing side, more natural release without the tight arm curl). it won't take long to get the top in shape and that will make the bottom easier to integrate.

A big part of pitching is synchronization between the top and bottom half. I think it is easier to synchronize when one half is working properly as opposed to trying t synch up a lower half to a top half that has a lot of flaws. I like the divide and conquer approach using reverse chaining.

 

[Ken B]

Your DD sounds like PC's dream, but your PC sounds like a nightmare. I don't think the current instructor is helping her and if you have other options available, it would be to her benefit to shop around. (You might also consider a move to the Portland area )

If all else, check out the I/R these threads:
http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-pitching/10321-i-r-classroom.html
http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-pitching/18135-drive-mechanics.html

Ken

 

[Sweet Lou]

2. Her coach wants her to finish with her elbow pointing at the batter. In an effort to do this, her arm often kicks out to the right and then slides back in. She has a much higher consistency finishing across her body rather than elbow straight at target so my question is, is the "hello elbow" philosophy right or is it common to finish across your body in the natural motion?

Get a different PC

 

[bucket pinata]

Whether you realize it or not you do know how to help her. Your doing your own research. attitude just drips off the video and a spark has been converted to flame when she got a glimpse of what is possible.Grab a few frosty ones and study the IR sticky thread and drive thread. I'm sure like most everyone on this board you will see that hello elbow is simply not going to get it done long term and the early you start the fewer bad habits you will have to break. What you will find is the better she gets the more coaches are going to want the change her. You are the one that is going to have to keep it consistent for her. Last but not least on the patience thing explain to her that progress comes in big chunks not at a steady pace. So put in the work, It wont seem like much is improving and then one day you two will have that Holy Cr%p where did that come from day. Have fun and believe in yourself.

EDIT, And oh ya like the other posters have said absolutely find a new PC.

PSS Am I the only one that cant type hello elbow with out putting a w at the end of hello.

 

[okie]

Thanks for the help and input so far, i really appreciate it.

As far as being patient, that is not an option! This is a good kid and rarely gets in trouble but when she does, the only punishment we have that works is grounding her from practice. She is a little bit of a perfectionist and will not slow down or stop until she has something down. I am very worried about her getting burned out but our attempts to have her dial it back a little have fallen on def ears. The whole "it will happen in time" concept doesnt cut it for her as she thinks that theres nothing she cant do if she works hard enough........as i said before, i LOVE that attitude but on the same note its concerning because this is not as easy as anything shes done in the past.

Right now her biggest problem is Youtube........lol. Its almost comical, one minute shes out throwing or hitting off the tee and the next shes sitting at her computer watching some technique video. In and out the door constantly trying to see if what she can replicate what she saw and if she likes it more than the last 57 videos she watched....... If only shed put this much energy into cleaning her room, lol.

Anyone else have to temper their DD's want to go out and work on her game............. I miss just playing catch with her, now it all seems like work.

 

[Ken B]

Youtube is a scary place for me because it seems like there is so much misinformation. If she's the type that can see something and learn, here's a few that I feel comfortable sharing with folks:

Cat Osterman Warm Up Close Up - YouTube
Cat Osterman Warming Up USSSA Pride - YouTube
finch-side.wmv - YouTube
Softball Power Drive - mechanics in slow motion 1000 frame per second - YouTube
女å*￾ソフト上野投手ã￾®æŠ•ç￾ƒãƒ•ã‚©ãƒ¼ãƒ*　2009.10.10-01 - YouTube
女å*￾ソフト上野投手ã￾®æŠ•ç￾ƒãƒ•ã‚©ãƒ¼ãƒ*　2009.10.10-02 - YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_de3HJvO-N8

Enjoy!

 

[NorthMS]

okie, I love the attitude you are describing.

Like the above poster said, just play catch with her underhanded. You pitch underhanded as well. A light went off with my DD by doing this. We were working on so many things at once (my fault), the poor girl was in overload mode. I was reading the I/R thread and decided that I wouldn't sit on the bucket until she could play catch underhanded. She was still thinking too much, so I would try and distract her while playing catch. I'd ask about school, movies, even boys, just to get her mind off of mechanics. After several days, we both could play catch underhanded just as well as we did with over hand throws. I sat back down on the bucket, and everything changed with her. I don't know if this is normal or not, but it sure worked with DD. It also took a lot of stress out of our practices. It was nice just to have talks with her while tossing. She was practicing and didn't even realize it.

 

[okie]

Rough night last night. We were up 7-3 so we put her in for the final inning and she walked her first 3 batters. She threw 21 pitches against those 3 batters, unable to finish them off. Lucky for us we are currently playing in a "no walk" league and she made up for her pitching with two putouts and some help from her infield. Last nights game looked almost exactly like the video i posted above. What do you guys see as her biggest problem and maybe the easiest thing to fix as well as the most important thing to focus on in her motion?

I had to shoot her down when she wanted to practice after the game last night but i've got the feeling that as soon as i get home shes going to be standing there with her glove. I love the idea of just playing catch underhanded to "lighten" the mood while getting in some good fundamentals, any other tips or drills that may help?

PS, thanks for the links to the IR stuff, that is a great thread and some very useful information in it. I've also watched some Hillhouse videos this morning and the stuff im seeing and reading in those two sources is almost contradictory to what shes being taught by her PC. Both of those sources seem to be alot more in line with the natural motion of the upper body during a pitch as to where the conventional methods she is being taught by her PC have her doing things that arent as fluid. Like i said in my original post, i've always felt that part of the problem was my DD forcing her arm to finish or move in an uncomfortable motion but who am i to disagree with the coaches who get paid to do this? She has seen two very different coaches so far, the first one is the assistant HC for the JC Softball team here and the other is just a PC but both taught the same method. Why is it that what they teach, you dont see from elite pitchers when you watch their videos, particularly the finish?

 

[JJsqueeze]

Why is it that what they teach, you dont see from elite pitchers when you watch their videos, particularly the finish?

Don't ask why Okie, you found the oasis so don't waste your time contemplating the desert. The bottom line is that the I/R threads will give you what you need to train your kid. This site is littered with dads just like you that have gone down the exact same road with great results. Some are far down the road, some are a few steps ahead but we probably all unanimously agree that there are no shortcuts, but it is not a terribly long process either. From your post it really appears that you are looking for a way to "fix" her to get her in games and get girls out. IMO this is a short term strategy destined for long term failure and heartache trying to undo the bandaids. If you want her to throw strikes now, let her use hello elbow like she is being taught. If you want her to become a very good pitcher over a longer period of time, then start doing the I/R drills and begin the reverse chaining process. Your choice, red pill or blue pill....