hello elbow?

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May 22, 2012
can someone please describe this pref with video, and compare and contrast to internal rotation?

Also, the positive and negative of each technique.

DD had a lesson tonight and I want to understand better what i am reading on here.



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May 26, 2008
Dallas, Texas
"Hello elbow" is where the pitcher forms an "L" with her arm after release. So, the elbow is level with the shoulder and pointing at the catcher, and the back of the hand is facing the catcher.

"IR" uses "internal rotation" of the upper arm at release. For a right hand pitcher, the upper arm rotates counter-clockwise at release. (Boardmember says there is more to it than the rotation of the forearm, I'm not disagreeing with him. The easiest way to see if a pitcher is using IR is to observer the rotation of the forearm at release.) To a newbie, it sounds a little strange.

But IR is used in baseball pitching motion, golf, tennis (modern forehand), ping pong, etc. IR is a way to get the big muscles of the forearm involved in throwing the ball, resulting in more speed.

I haven't seen any pitchers using "hello elbow" in college. You occasionally see someone throwing a peel drop finish in the "L".

"Hello elbow" was taught in the early 1990s before there were good slow motion videos. My DD was taught it, but she stopped it using it as a junior in HS when we saw that she threw faster by letting her forearm turn over rather than finish in the "L".
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May 4, 2009
It goes to show you how much misinformation is in this game if someone of Jenny Finch's stature promotes something that is patently wrong and something that she doesn't herself do. Think about what other nonsense people come up with that don't have her level of experience.
Apr 26, 2012
My wife did the hello elbow deal her whole life and is experimenting with the ir method. She was one of the better pitchers in our area when she was playing. She's 25 and hasn't pitched in several years. Needless to say she was a little rusty when we started coaching this year. I had to throw bp the best I could since she was struggling so bad.

Yesterday was the first time she tried IR. She threw a softie against the house for about ten minutes till she felt comfortable, that's all it took. Then she made me catch a few and it was unbelievable how much better she was with absolutely no practice. She had a lot more pop with much less effort, and was pretty accurate for the first time out. She was furious that she spent her whole childhood learning the other way. The experiment lasted about 3 pitches and she was sold.
May 22, 2012
The easiest way to see if a pitcher is using IR is to observer the rotation of the forearm at release.) To a newbie, it sounds a little strange.

Thanks, can you elaborate on this?
Apr 26, 2012
The easiest way to see if a pitcher is using IR is to observer the rotation of the forearm at release.) To a newbie, it sounds a little strange.

Thanks, can you elaborate on this?

I'm far from qualified to explain anything. To me, its basically the way your arm swings when you walk, just exaggerated. It can't get much more natural than that.

Check out the threads on here in the pitching forum esp the "sticky", its as in depth as you want it to be. I just clicked on every thread title that had IR in it. "Boardmember" covers it pretty thoroughly. Honestly some of the scientific stuff was way over my head, but the concept is simple. There's a ton of video in slo mo where you can see the rotation very plainly.
May 17, 2012
Hold the ball at 9:00 with palm to the sky (or slightly facing third base) from the K position. Let the arm fall naturally. The end result is the palm finishes facing the thigh. The natural rotation of the forearm (pronation?) is what to look for.

Hello elbow is normally taught to have a stop sign at the 9:00 K position (palm facing second base) and push the ball down and through finishing with your elbow pointing at the catcher.

It is more in-depth than that; that's just my layman's translation. As others stated seek out "Boardmember"'s post(s).
Apr 17, 2012
When you throw overhand your thumb should end up pointing down as your arm follws through to the left side. With IR the thumb will rotate from outside to inside with natural follow through to somewhere opposite the throwing shoulder
May 16, 2010
A hello elbow is a construct that someone came up with who knows nothing about pitching (probably around the late 1990s), where the pitcher closes the hips and follows through to the throwing shoulder. It is seen these days in kids who are usually taught by parents or non-pro's who never pitched.

Last year I was looking for a pitching coach for my granddaughter, and I told the coach I would pay her to give ME a lesson before I brought my DGD to her. She charged $40 for a half hour lesson. I was throwing strikes right to her glove with fair speed, and I was using IR with a bent elbow (K position). I had watche Bill Hillhouses video and was trying to throw his way. She kept telling me to get long with the arm (L position) and to stop following through to my glove side shoulder, but to do the hello elbow following through to the throwing arm shoulder.

I never went back.

DGD was throwing a bullpen for her LL all-star team and I was outside the cage watching, when the coach told her to straighten the arm. I asked what she meant and she said to keep it locked all the way around. I said, "no, she is NOT going to do that. Give her any other advice regarding posture etc. but she is NOT going to lock out the arm."
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Jul 14, 2008
Learn the whole motion and don't get obsessed with the follow through, which is basically what IR means, a local term here on the board that relies on explaining the underlying muscle science. It is basically a non-teach in my opinion.

What a crock of baloney.........I/R is a mechanical propellant within a system.......Which begins before release.......And is an APPLIED motor skill that ADDS to the system.............The follow through is an EFFECT of the mechanics associated with I/R delivery of the projectile.........

Anyone who tells you that "I/R is an effect" vs. a "cause" has his/her head buried in the sand.......Run......Run like the wind IMO..........

As I've said in the past.........You absolutely CAN throw a ball underhand WITHOUT engaging the mechanics/mechanisms of I/R........And the resultant differences in velocity and spin are measurably diminished/limited..........

Once you understand/realize the HOW/WHEN/WHY's of an I/R propelled delivery........As compared to NOT utilizing it's mechanical advantages........You WILL have an "Ah-Ha" moment...........Guaranteed........

This quote from Sluggers couldn't be closer to the facts, except to say that I/R more importantly involves TRANSFERRING kinematic energy to the FASTEST/MOST POWERFUL moving part in the human body.........FOREARM/WRIST ROTATION:
IR is a way to get the big muscles of the forearm involved in throwing the ball, resulting in more speed.

"I/R is just another name for follow-though"..........A pretty good "tell" for anyone searching for knowledge within a PC........

Will a tire roll down a hill?.........Absolutely........But put it on a car with an engine in it and stomp on the gas and see how fast it gets "rolling" down the hill..........

I/R IS AN ENGINE.........It's NOT the exhaust.............

You kill me sometime with your BS Screwball.........

Carry on..........

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