Good Umpiring

[BretMan]

I had an umpire that emphaticlly told me my player missed the tag. When I told him my catcher had the ball and was blocking the plate and therefore the runner had to slide I was told to take myself back into the dugout or he'd throw me. I asked him to please ask the other umpire. I got thrown Second game in my life. All asked very politely (even the other coach went 'but why she didn't do anything wrong' and got threatened with being thrown herself!) At one point he tried to make me leave the complex but thankfully cooler heads prevailed and I was allowed to sit on 'this side' of the complex (ended up leaving anyways as I needed a nice long walk or harsh words were going to be said afterwards) To top it off? After the game the other umpire admitted to me that he would have told the plate he was wrong. The runner moved from the tag, which he saw at first base. After being told that I (lost my head) and offered the plate umpire my glasses as clearly he was blind. I hope he never umpires a game of mine (different association) as I will not get one strike called on me (and after doing that, probably deservedly so)

Most umpires are unreasonable when it comes to questioning their calls. There is nothing wrong with asking an umpire to go ask for a second opinion. ESPECIALLY when you have the coach giving you the reason why.

Please don't tell us that your first argument about this play was that the runner HAD to slide. That, of course, is an absolute falsehood. Runners are NEVER required to slide at any base, for any play, under any circumstances.

To the umpire that offered up his opinion of the play after the game, thus escalating an already tense situation...way to throw your partner under the bus. From 70+ feet away he was sure he had a tag because he "saw the runner move"? That's pretty weak evidence. Why use it to get an already fired-up coach even more fired-up? His long distance view was no more valid that the view of the umpire standing right next to the play (and probably quite a bit less so).

I would really have to question the professionalism and motive of an umpire that would basically tell an already upset coach, "My partner doesn't know what he's doing, but I do". Way to throw fuel on the fire...

In your defense, it does sound like maybe the ejection came too quickly and was unwarranted. And I certainly hope that no umpire would intentionally make bad calls against a team in future games, just because of their coach's actions in a past game.

 

[tghorley]

No Bretman I was just joking about the getting warm part. It was a really well played game, I think 3-2, and both umpires did an outstanding job. I think he just missed the call and was more embarrassed than anything.

The ball game was actually played in Simpsonville, SC, in the foothills of the mountains. My DGD plays with a team out of Charlotte, NC so I am always traveling to see them play. But it was cold that weekend, well for this southern boy anyway.

And don't let your friend fool you, Wilmington is no tropical paradise. OK, maybe it is for all the northern folks that have moved here. Of course I live at the beach and the wind seems to be blowing all the time making it feel even colder.

 

[Lozza]

Please don't tell us that your first argument about this play was that the runner HAD to slide. That, of course, is an absolute falsehood. Runners are NEVER required to slide at any base, for any play, under any circumstances.

Not my first argument. My first argument was that she had tagged the player out. Seriously EVERYONE but the fool at home plate knew she was out (the runner admitted it as well. She had a bruise from the tag, so I have no idea how this umpire missed it!) It was only Friday so I'm still very, very steamed about it

To the umpire that offered up his opinion of the play after the game, thus escalating an already tense situation...way to throw your partner under the bus. From 70+ feet away he was sure he had a tag because he "saw the runner move"? That's pretty weak evidence. Why use it to get an already fired-up coach even more fired-up? His long distance view was no more valid that the view of the umpire standing right next to the play (and probably quite a bit less so).

I would really have to question the professionalism and motive of an umpire that would basically tell an already upset coach, "My partner doesn't know what he's doing, but I do". Way to throw fuel on the fire...

In your defense, it does sound like maybe the ejection came too quickly and was unwarranted. And I certainly hope that no umpire would intentionally make bad calls against a team in future games, just because of their coach's actions in a past game.

The umpire who said it is a close friend of mine and he said today that his dad ripped into him for it. (his dad is a high level blue) His opinion was that it was fine to tell me the next day (today) but last night was a huge mistake because of how angry I was. (and he also passed on that he's already had a go at the blue for ejecting me. He'd already spoken to all the other parties and the only one who felt that I should have been ejected was the plate umpire. Not one other person)

I would hope he wouldn't, but it wouldn't surprise me.

In better news I had all my corners called today so I'm back to thinking out blues are doing a fantastic job!

 

[MTR]

Last fall, championship game, two outs, tying runner on third base, two strikes on slap hitter. Ball is very low and as hitter takes her steps to slap, she never takes the bat off of her shoulder and lets the ball go (there is/was video confirming she did not offer). Umpire says yes, she went. Batter ask plate umpire if he would ask the base umpire if he saw it differently. He emphatically said no. Looks like this umpire was as cold as I was and wanted to get warm. To our players, coaches, and fans credit, they accepted the umpires decision and did not raise a fuss. This is the kind of umpire I have no respect.

Why, the umpire did exactly as directed? Again, someone doesn't get their way, so the other guy is bad.

Since an umpire called a strike, there is no "check" accepted since the umpire is not to call a strike unless it was. Did he just outright miss the call? Sounds like it, but his mechanic was correct.

BTW, as an aside, if a batter has a bat on his/her shoulder, neither the feet or rear should be moving toward the ball. And before someone who has a hard time digesting this comment, I didn't say they "couldn't", but "shouldn't". A lot of players do things that are ritualistic, a purposeful distraction or what they think to be cute that are unnecessary. And when they do distract and they are on the short end of the call, they do not understand why. Happens a lot in SP and with the speed of the game, I don't doubt it happens more in FP than one may think.

 

[MTR]

I had an umpire that emphaticlly told me my player missed the tag. When I told him my catcher had the ball and was blocking the plate and therefore the runner had to slide I was told to take myself back into the dugout or he'd throw me.

Well, the statement about sliding may have killed your intergrity as it pertains to knowledge of the rules, but ultimatums on either party's behalf never lead to anything good and, if offered, better be executed as promised.

I asked him to please ask the other umpire. I got thrown

So, he offered the ultimatum, you ignored it and are surprised you were ejected? Doesn't sound very smart.

Second game in my life. All asked very politely (even the other coach went 'but why she didn't do anything wrong' and got threatened with being thrown herself!)

How does the coach know you didn't do anything wrong? You already stated that you did.

At one point he tried to make me leave the complex but thankfully cooler heads prevailed and I was allowed to sit on 'this side' of the complex (ended up leaving anyways as I needed a nice long walk or harsh words were going to be said afterwards) To top it off?

In the states and ISF (10.9.e), that could have cost your team the game by forfeit. There is absolutely no purpose for a player or coach who has been ejected to remain in the area. Much like offering ultimatums, rarely does anything positive come of it.

After the game the other umpire admitted to me that he would have told the plate he was wrong.

This umpire is an idiot (and in contradiction of ISF 10.6) and would be working alone in many areas simply because no other umpire would work with him.

The runner moved from the tag, which he saw at first base. After being told that I (lost my head) and offered the plate umpire my glasses as clearly he was blind. I hope he never umpires a game of mine (different association) as I will not get one strike called on me (and after doing that, probably deservedly so)

Hmmmm.....an ejected person still on site confronts an umpire after the game. Didn't I here somewhere that staying in the area isn't a good idea?

Most umpires are unreasonable when it comes to questioning their calls. There is nothing wrong with asking an umpire to go ask for a second opinion. ESPECIALLY when you have the coach giving you the reason why.

Well, in this case it was a judgment call. End of story (ISF 4.9, 10.6). May have been bad judgment, but what is someone from 70' away going to tell the umpire that was on top of the play (assumption since you did not indicate any positioning issues)?

And I disagree with your assessment that MOST umpires are unreasonable when it comes to questioning calls. With just how many umpires have you interacted? I would have to assume it is more than 50K because that would get you somewhere near the 50% to even come close to using the term "MOST". That is a lot of ball games. And you have questioned the calls of each one to see if they were unreasonable? Then again, even for those with whom you believe to be unreasonable, what was your criteria, just that they did not agree with you?

I train (and find many) umpires to listen to what a coach has to say and understand it is their job to represent their team. When they are done, explain your ruling or take whatever action you deem necessary to resolve any situation which may exist. That may include having a conference with your partner(s) or restating your ruling and requesting the coach return to the dugout so the game may resume. If the coach has a secondary reason to question that call (and you believe it to be valid and not fishing), listen to it and take the appropriate action as noted above.

As much as the coach expects the umpire to at least listen to their concerns, the coach should also understand that when the umpire requests you return to the dugout and you refuse, the umpire's job is to manage the game and if someone is impeding that responsibility, they may have to be dealt with accordingly.

Look, it is this simple. You didn't like the call and questioned it. Okay, you did that. Not stating the call was right or wrong, just addressing your approach and perceptions. As has been previously stated here and in the rules, a "second opinion", as you put it, of a judgment call is not permissible without cause.

 

[marriard]

So when is it advisable to check with your partner? When there is some reasonable doubt that you may have missed some element of the play. The ball was loose and you didn't see it, your view was blocked by a player, for some reason you were not able to get into the proper position to make the call or ifyou had a bad angle on a pulled foot or swipe tag. If none of those were present, then making the call is simply doing the job you're being paid to do. Checking just to placate a coach does nothing more than waste time and open up coaches to asking for help on every play where they don't happen to like the call.

I like this explanation as it says what I was basically trying to say. And I like umpires that are willing to follow this philosophy hopefully with a fairly broad view of what 'reasonable doubt' is. It is the ones who refuse to 'check' when these elements are in play that drive people nuts. Umpiring mechanics and codes are different in any sport and I appreciate this thread in helping me understand exactly how it is applied in softball as it will help me interact correctly next time the situation happens.

You have to have a pretty solid ego and a good amount of self-confidence to be a good umpire in any sport and it can be very tough to put these traits aside to make the right call. A lesson I certainly had to learn myself when I was younger.

 

[tghorley]

The guidelines for checking with the base umpire on a "swing/no swing" call are that only the defensive team may make the request and then only if the pitch was called a ball. The flip side of that is that the plate umpire should rule a swing only if he is 100% sure that he saw one.

Ok, by this reasoning, the offensive team could not ask the base umpire to ask for help on a called out at first base if the team thought the first baseman's foot was off the base. After all, the base umpire was "100%" sure he saw an out. LOL

BretMan, I do get the difference. It just proves to me again that I could never be an umpire. And thanks to you and MTR for explaining the rules so all of can understand this wonderful game better.

 

[MTR]

Ok, by this reasoning, the offensive team could not ask the base umpire to ask for help on a called out at first base if the team thought the first baseman's foot was off the base. After all, the base umpire was "100%" sure he saw an out. LOL

Well that is one of the few times that most umpires will readily, some even waiting to be asked, go for help. However, it is quite possible that the umpire DID have all the elements and judges that there is no need to go. It happens.

BretMan, I do get the difference. It just proves to me again that I could never be an umpire. And thanks to you and MTR for explaining the rules so all of can understand this wonderful game better.

Of course, you could be an umpire. It's just like every other skill position in this world, you need to work at it and understand certain applications of the rules as a whole.

The "umpire" to which many refer on these boards, and I know they are out there, are those who think that they can just stand on the field, go ball, strike, fair, foul, safe, out and dead and expect their charisma and TV observations to carry them through the rest spots. Cannot tell you how many times I've had coaches or players cite something they saw at a baseball game as a defense in arguing a call. Many do not understand it is not the same game.

But if these "umpires" were forced to take a closed book test, written or oral, they may know 50% of what is needed and, like on the field, be guessing at the rest. There are some umpires that cannot score a 50% on an open-book, unrestricted time limit written test and that isn't good for anyone.

 

[Ajaywill]

...With every ball that was called, he used subtle hand gestures to let the pitcher and batter know if the pitch, in his judgement of course, was outside, inside, low or high.

If I saw this umpire doing this, my first question to him would be: "Do you also tell the players the location of a called strike?"

If an umpire is calling a pitch a ball, then announcing where the pitch was, s/he is trying to justify his call because s/he is unsure about it.

Make the call and provide additional information if requested properly.