No, not always. If the fly ball is not caught or touched by the fielder and then rolls foul before passing 1B or 3B, it is a foul ball and the batter stays up to bat.But the batter is out no matter what.....caught or dropped.....correct??
No, not always. If the fly ball is not caught or touched by the fielder and then rolls foul before passing 1B or 3B, it is a foul ball and the batter stays up to bat.But the batter is out no matter what.....caught or dropped.....correct??
How many times have you seen the two runners standing on 2B scenario?
No, not always. If the fly ball is not caught or touched by the fielder and then rolls foul before passing 1B or 3B, it is a foul ball and the batter stays up to bat.
"Larry ... was she ON second base safely?"
"Yeah, she was standing on the bag. So she can't go back."
"That's what I'm thinking. I'm calling her out for running the bases backwards and drawing the throw. The second runner who scored will go back to third."
Like you say this discussion has happened before so I'm not going to drag it out. I'll just say all the arguments you are making are not using any of the words in the books. I have not seen any case plays on this topic so no help there. If you have any that would be a help.I've had the same discussion numerous times on this play ... I think we even did it here.
Here is my take:
The infield fly was clear and evident by the situation. Not that it matters, but the umpires clearly and appropriately made the call.
Once the infield fly is invoked, runners run at their own peril (or benefit). The runner safely obtained second base, and all runners in front of her safely advanced (more on that in a moment).
Once all runners have safely advanced, they have no reason to retreat. (Personally, I wish the rule would be re-worded to reflect this, but it still contains archaic language.) Had the defense NOT made a play on her, I would have let the play stand and left her on first base and the runner on third base ... but she did confuse the defense into making a play which would have benefited the offense (the runner on third scored).
Yes, her coach tried making the same argument -- that she did it because she was dumb (his actual words). Regardless of her motivation, it DID confuse the defense into making a play that allowed another runner to advance.
Out.
Now ... had ANY of the runners in front of her NOT fully advanced, she would still have the right -- nay, the requirement -- to retreat as she would not have been entitled to safely hold second base. But since all runners had safely attained the next base, none had the right to go back.
Had she not reached second base before turning around, first base would have been her last legally occupied base and she would have been fine to return. Since she was "standing on second" and all runners had legally advanced, second base was her last legally occupied base.
Just because something the offense did confused the defense does not make a dumb runner retreating to a previous base an automatic out call. This would go along with the ruling on a batter running on a dropped 3rd strike with less than 2 outs and first base occupied. The defense is responsible for knowing the situation and making the appropriate play.
Whats the difference? A runner is off base and is liable to be put out and the defense made a play. Why would you rule it any differently than a situation where there were runners on 1st and 3rd and the runner at 1st made a fake attempt to advance to get the defense to play on them and score the runner from 3rd?
The infield fly rule is often miscomprehended by both players, coaches and , in fact , some umpires. Dropped infield flys tend to compound the confusion. We have all seen the hectic, deer in headlights, helter skelter running that occurs after an infield fly is dropped. Of all the many times I have seen this happen, not once have I ever considered this type of reaction to be a choreographed intentional attempt to confuse the defense. I’d agree with the coach on this one.