Faking run from3rd to home
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Hal, I get the feeling after reading your posts for the last year or so , & also after reading your book, that you are all about winning at almost any cost, & the more trickery & deception you can use the better???? please tell me this is not so, because your language sure comes off that way. There would be nothing I would enjoy more than seeing a good fundamentally sound team beat a team that is playing in the manner you are describing.
halskinner
Banned
- May 7, 2008
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Hey Lane,
I and the teams I played on only used a few of these plays. I have seen MANY MANY more of these type of plays used in girls fastpitch.
Call them trick plays or whatever you want to call them. They are out there and teams and coaches use them.
Batter bunts, runner on 2nd heads for 3rd. Play at 3rd, runner safe.. 1st baeman still standing close to home plate and 2nd baseman near pitcher so runner on first comes off 1st 3 steps. 3rd baseman has the ball, stands up and throws to 1st bae and guess what? The right fielder catches the ball at 1st base and tags out the runner. Nobody saw her sneak in during all the commotion at 3rd because that was where all the action was.
Is that a trick play or is it brilliant defense? Setting the other team up to make mistakes has been a part of the sport of softball forever. I am simply outlining what I have seen done.
Is it a hard lesson sometimes? Yup. But if someone thinks these types of plays can't possibly happen to their team, they are foolish.
A good slow change up looks like a fastball until it is released for delivery, a big deceiving move on the part of the pitcher. However, it is one that is used by EVERY pitcher on EVERY team so it is accepted as 'part of the game'. It's a one pitch trick play.
Where do you draw the line between good and evil, so to speak? Coaches that use these types of plays NEVER talk about them. If the same team falls for the same plays twice in a tourney, they are just cannon fodder for the winningest teams.
I talked to a coach from the LA area that came up to my town for a tourney. He brought a decent but not hugely successful team with him. I told him to have every player swing at the first pitch. T
They did and scored 5 runs in the first inning before the other team figured out what they were doing to them and stopped throwing meatball first pitches every batter. Was I an SOB for giving them that piece of advice? Some would say yes. Some would not.
No question, deceit is a big part of what makes the game fun. I guess the question has to be where a coach is going to draw the line between playing the game the way it was meant to be played & going overboard.
Seen HS basketball team where defense gets in offenses face and yells "ball ball ball" the whole game. ( I find it irritating) Fair?
What about college football where loud stadium noise and the fans ARE a considerable factor, making it where opposing offense cant hear at all at the line of scrimage? Fair
What about basketball fans taunting opposing players with calls of air-ball and brick, and worse.
Even some 10 yr old football teams are taught to talk smack to distract players on line of scrimmage. Pretty classless, but fair?
Baseball catchers talking to batters to distract them too, fair?
Youll be lucky is some parent doesnt yell "going" anyway.
A good team wont give up that run, and will have confidence they can get 3 outs, even let them load the bases if need be and always make them earn it at home plate.
An out for a run is an AWFUL trade, that is like a pawn for a knight in chess.
Consider the # of outs in a game (~12-15 per team for 4-5 innings in 1hr travel games) and the avg # runs (0-5) and you will see what I mean. It is not a trade you willingly make.
What about college football where loud stadium noise and the fans ARE a considerable factor, making it where opposing offense cant hear at all at the line of scrimage? Fair
What about basketball fans taunting opposing players with calls of air-ball and brick, and worse.
Even some 10 yr old football teams are taught to talk smack to distract players on line of scrimmage. Pretty classless, but fair?
Baseball catchers talking to batters to distract them too, fair?
Youll be lucky is some parent doesnt yell "going" anyway.
A good team wont give up that run, and will have confidence they can get 3 outs, even let them load the bases if need be and always make them earn it at home plate.
An out for a run is an AWFUL trade, that is like a pawn for a knight in chess.
Consider the # of outs in a game (~12-15 per team for 4-5 innings in 1hr travel games) and the avg # runs (0-5) and you will see what I mean. It is not a trade you willingly make.
halskinner
Banned
- May 7, 2008
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You forgot one;
What about the womens college softball teams that bring kettle drums into the digout and beat on them NONSTOP the entire game?
what about parents with milkjugs full of rocks?
Ive seen umps stop games when girls in dugout were making too much noise by beating on things. Yelling was OK, but not beating on poles, seats, roof, etc.
Ive seen umps stop games when girls in dugout were making too much noise by beating on things. Yelling was OK, but not beating on poles, seats, roof, etc.
ASA fixed that this year with the "no artificial noise maker rule" hopefully all other organization will follow suite.
When coaching first on a pickoff play from the catcher to first with a right handed first basemen I love to yell "BACK" with my runner halfway to 2nd. Some of the best tags are made to that phantom runner on first.
When coaching first on a pickoff play from the catcher to first with a right handed first basemen I love to yell "BACK" with my runner halfway to 2nd. Some of the best tags are made to that phantom runner on first.
FJRGerry
Abby's Dad
Instead of the runner yelling "Going", couldn't the 3rd base coach yell "Go, Go, Go!" with the understanding that 'Go" means "fake go" (as opposed to yelling Steal, or Run, or some other word which would actually mean to steal)? I would think this could have the same effect, yet be more sportsman-like. I see nothing wrong with trick plays, but ones which make it look like you're the opposing team don't seem right. I guess if you want to go that way then have your girls practice their ventriloquist skills so they can fool the umps as well!
In my opinion it is never ok for the base coaches to directly influence the defense by verbal trickery. In your example, the coach is essentially talking directly to 1B to trick her into thinking the runner is going back to first base. Opposing coaches should not be directly talking to opposing players during play to influence the outcome of the game.
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