Faking run from3rd to home

[ctfastpitch]

Ever played against a team that used inaudible (hand) signals to let their runners know what to do?

As a base coach on 1st, ever yell to your runner "GO, GO, GO" just to yell "BACK, BACK, BACK" just as she gets two steps past 1st? Draws all the attention to you and 1st base and away from your runner on 3rd?

Perfectly legal and it could score you the game winning run.

But is it ethical enough for you?

There are plenty of tactics that are clearly legal and ok to do; there are plenty that are clearly wrong/against the rules; and there is a big grey area in between. But I think there are some general guidelines as to what is clearly right and clearly wrong. As a coach, you can say/yell anything you want to YOUR players. It is up to the defense to react to what is happening on the field (and most good/experienced defenses won't even hear an opposing base coach). However, when an offensive coach or player intentionally does or says something to impersonate a defensive player in order to confuse another defensive player, that is something that falls in the "clearly wrong" category, and should be rung up for interference.

Hey, I think we all want help our kids win (notice I did not say we all want to win...big difference as to who we are in it for). And I think we will all look for every edge/advantage within the rules. But I keep going back to the fact that these tactics will generally only work with 14U and younger players. At that level, we as coaches are also teachers. What are we trying to teach these kids about sportsmanship?

I also recognize that this stuff happens, and we should be aware it. But you seem to be advocating it....big difference!!

 

[SnocatzDad]

Ever played against a team that used inaudible (hand) signals to let their runners know what to do?

As a base coach on 1st, ever yell to your runner "GO, GO, GO" just to yell "BACK, BACK, BACK" just as she gets two steps past 1st? Draws all the attention to you and 1st base and away from your runner on 3rd?

Perfectly legal and it could score you the game winning run.

But is it ethical enough for you?

I guess my question would be that if this is such an important part of winning softball, why don't we see it more at the top level of NCAA play and olympic play? Do the coaches do this in all the non televised games and then put away the bag of tricks when the cameras are on?

Personally, I think a little trickery (intentional overthrows, baserunning gaffs) make the sport more interesting and can be an engaging teaching tool for the kids. I would wager that the enthusiam level to practice a trick play, vs just field grounders for 30 minutes would be extremely high. It's also a great way to work the players brain's which sometimes get left off the practice schedule while they work through so many drills by rote.

 

[halskinner]

Hey, if the runner jumps early and gets caught, she is out....if she screams at the defense & gets called for interference, she is out.. You can find an extreme case for any argument!

If your team is down by one with runners on, and there is a foul pop-up for the final out, should the base coach stick his foot out to trip the fielder? Hey, everyone is looking up at the ball, you might get away with it!! If you don't the game's over anyway!!! If you follow your approach, it's worth a try!!!

This IS NOT my approach to the game and I am NOT an advocate of these types of plays. Admittedly, I HAVE used a few of these things on teams I have played for. I am simply talking about these plays where most coaches will not talk about them for fear of the same thing happening; they talk about them so they must think it's OK to use them.

It's a taboo kind of subject.

 

[FPump]

You forgot one;

What about the womens college softball teams that bring kettle drums into the digout and beat on them NONSTOP the entire game?

Prohibited per NCAA Rule 5.1 and 13.5.
EFFECT-First a warning to the offending individual. Any subsequent violation, by same individual, ejection. Any flagrant violation of the rule, offending individual can be ejected without warning.

 

[FPump]

It's a teach

Seen HS basketball team where defense gets in offenses face and yells "ball ball ball" the whole game. ( I find it irritating) Fair?[/QUOTE Technical foul can be called in this sitch in HS basketball.

What about college football where loud stadium noise and the fans ARE a considerable factor, making it where opposing offense cant hear at all at the line of scrimage? Fair

What about basketball fans taunting opposing players with calls of air-ball and brick, and worse.

Even some 10 yr old football teams are taught to talk smack to distract players on line of scrimmage. Pretty classless, but fair?

Baseball catchers talking to batters to distract them too, fair?

Youll be lucky is some parent doesnt yell "going" anyway.


A good team wont give up that run, and will have confidence they can get 3 outs, even let them load the bases if need be and always make them earn it at home plate.

An out for a run is an AWFUL trade, that is like a pawn for a knight in chess.
Consider the # of outs in a game (~12-15 per team for 4-5 innings in 1hr travel games) and the avg # runs (0-5) and you will see what I mean. It is not a trade you willingly make.

 

[FPump]

How about the coaches that tell their runners to leave the bag when the pitcher gets the ball to 12:00? Pushing the envelope with the blues because it is such a close call they will NEVER call it?

Getting an edge on the competition or cheating?

.....you sound like the type of coach who would get on an ump who was on his toes, doing his job, and had the guts to call the runner out.

 

[TMielke]

This is an old thread that has been brought back to life. I will dive in anyways.

Hal, a retired batter running to first on a DTS is protected in doing so by the rules.

An offensive coach or player that verbally interferes with the defense will lose a runner and get an out.

If I know this is the reputation of the team, I will be looking for it. If I don't know a team tends to do this I will figure it out pretty darn quick.

If I am especially ornery that day, the coach that promotes this will end up in the parking lot about two seconds after they start arguing with me! On second thought, the coach that argues my call on this obviously has taught and condones this and will get run for USC. I won't have to be feeling ornery at all!

Life is to short to put up with crap like this!

Tom

 

[rockerdad21]

I have to agree. Yes trickery is part of the game, but this is downright dirty. I would say this practice is more analagous to putting on a fake tag without the ball.

I draw the line at coaches or players talking (or yelling) to opposing players. I think there is a big difference between the plays halskinner mentioned versus coaches talking directly to opposing players. Yes, those plays may work once or twice, but that's not the way I want to win. Our teams will bunt, hit and run aggressively on the bases, work hard on defense and try and pitch well, but we do not talk to opposing teams or coaches during games.

 

[mo98]

It is the same as riding the clock down, or using a time out to end the game for a win . you as a team on the other side will not like it but it takes place . I teach my players to know my voice and there other players voices.

 

[sluggers]

Perhaps we should teach the catcher to make derogatory comments about the batter's mother or sister as well.

It is bush league.