Faking run from3rd to home

[mad hornet]

[/B]

In my opinion it is never ok for the base coaches to directly influence the defense by verbal trickery. In your example, the coach is essentially talking directly to 1B to trick her into thinking the runner is going back to first base. Opposing coaches should not be directly talking to opposing players during play to influence the outcome of the game.

I have to agree. Yes trickery is part of the game, but this is downright dirty. I would say this practice is more analagous to putting on a fake tag without the ball.

 

[halskinner]

How about the third base coach that is SO loud and never shuts up. I mean loud to the point the other team's 3rd baseman doesnt want to get within 12 feet of him for fear of getting a migraine.

Seen many of those too. And, it's perfectly legal, until the player complains to the ump.

 

[lelwell]

Almost

We often have the runner at third get a lead to help the bunter get to first. If catcher throws to first runner completes break home to try and score. If catcher throws to third runner dives back in and bunter is safe. However, the runner at third doesn't yell anything.

lelwell

 

[ctfastpitch]

No problem with what lelwell describes. If an offensive or defensive player chooses to put themself at risk to force the opposing team to make a play or make a decision, that is solid aggressive play. I would also have no problem with a team doing some trickery that is within the rules to catch the other team sleeping or to gain an edge (e.g. cut play on a first & third steal play, batter running on a 3rd strike, intentional overthrow on a pick-off, pitcher varying her timing, etc.).

However, some (not all) of the tactics described on this thread are really just doing something that is clearly against the rules, but just doing it in such a way as not to get caught. To me, that is the big difference. I don't think those are the lessons we are trying to teach our players, especially 16U and younger!!

I also don't particularly care for the excessive noisemaking, specifically timed and intended to distract a pitcher (normal, even loud cheering for your team & teammates is fine). May not be technically against the rules, but more than a couple umpires that I have talked to will either warn the team/coach, or their strike zone will start to close up.

Most of these tactics really will only work against younger, more inexperience players anyway. Back to the original post, with a runner on 3rd and less than 2 out, a good defense will already know how they plan to defend a bunt (get the out, or keep the run from scoring) based on the game situation. Probably only going to work for 12 & under...so again, is this the lesson we want to teach kids at that age?

 

[halskinner]

No problem with what lelwell describes. If an offensive or defensive player chooses to put themself at risk to force the opposing team to make a play or make a decision, that is solid aggressive play. I would also have no problem with a team doing some trickery that is within the rules to catch the other team sleeping or to gain an edge (e.g. cut play on a first & third steal play, batter running on a 3rd strike, intentional overthrow on a pick-off, pitcher varying her timing, etc.).

However, some (not all) of the tactics described on this thread are really just doing something that is clearly against the rules, but just doing it in such a way as not to get caught. To me, that is the big difference. I don't think those are the lessons we are trying to teach our players, especially 16U and younger!!

I also don't particularly care for the excessive noisemaking, specifically timed and intended to distract a pitcher (normal, even loud cheering for your team & teammates is fine). May not be technically against the rules, but more than a couple umpires that I have talked to will either warn the team/coach, or their strike zone will start to close up.

Most of these tactics really will only work against younger, more inexperience players anyway. Back to the original post, with a runner on 3rd and less than 2 out, a good defense will already know how they plan to defend a bunt (get the out, or keep the run from scoring) based on the game situation. Probably only going to work for 12 & under...so again, is this the lesson we want to teach kids at that age?

Yeah but each and everything that has been mentioned probably made each reader / coach sit bgck and wonder where they draw the line between acceptable and not acceptable.

A little bit of softball soul searching goin on here.

I am sure each coach knows a different coach that would use each and every one of those things. They probably just got taken off the Christmas card list too!

 

[ctfastpitch]

Not sure where the line is, and it is likely different for every coach, but in general, if any tactic involves getting away with something that is against the rules, then I would say that it is over the line, wherever it's drawn.....

 

[rowdy]

Hal-
I have coached competitive ball for the last 5-6 years and have never had a team or watched a game where a team did that. Sportsmanship is way more important than winning and yelling at a good team will not alter how they defend this or any other play. We have had success on a national level teaching fundamentals, solid defense and pitching and most important have a lot of fun. Give it a try, I think you will enjoy yourself a lot more.

 

[dead_head_dad]

Wouldn't it just be easier to get your bats shaved and rolled and then rely on homeruns? Better yet, just get really good at Photoshop and load up your 14-year old team with a bunch of 17-year olds with doctored birth certificates. Whatever it takes to win, right?

If you're not willing to treat the game with the respect it deserves, do us all a favor and keep your team off of the field.

 

[halskinner]

Not sure where the line is, and it is likely different for every coach, but in general, if any tactic involves getting away with something that is against the rules, then I would say that it is over the line, wherever it's drawn.....

How about the coaches that tell their runners to leave the bag when the pitcher gets the ball to 12:00? Pushing the envelope with the blues because it is such a close call they will NEVER call it?

Getting an edge on the competition or cheating?

 

[halskinner]

Hal-
I have coached competitive ball for the last 5-6 years and have never had a team or watched a game where a team did that. Sportsmanship is way more important than winning and yelling at a good team will not alter how they defend this or any other play. We have had success on a national level teaching fundamentals, solid defense and pitching and most important have a lot of fun. Give it a try, I think you will enjoy yourself a lot more.

How about the parent that goes over to the other teams dugout to say hi while her daughters team is at bat. Batter hits to the outfield, runner on 2nd rounding 3rd as the center fielder cuts loose with the throw. Parent yells 'CUT' and 2nd baseman does just that and then looks at her bench to see who yelled it,,, as parent is heading back to the other side?

Ya think it doesnt happen?