Extension Drills?

[FastpitchFan]

The swing chute helps teach the body how to extend through. See my post about that.

http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-hitting/47-swing-chute.html

Also, throwing the bat for distance from a regular swing teaching the players to naturally adjust their swing and extend to get the distance. Great instant feedback.

I also like the soccer ball on a plunger in a Tee drill but you need to have proper foundation before you do this.

Marc

 

[Amy in AZ.]

Here's a pretty good discussion of using "the box".

Box versus No Box - Baseball Fever

 

[tom.guerry]

that is indeed a very interesting discussion of the box.,and see alos the embedded link:

The reality we (think we)see and the cues we use - SETPRO Smart Power Training Forum



To set the historical record straight there, you might notice that the very first post in the old setpro thread from 2000 was by me. Same ol tomguerry, but the font is downsized because of subsequent banning ( for my continued support of info conflicting with the setpro dogma).

Nyman is the guru at that site, and at that time he was studying the swing from the perspective that throwing and swinging were alike and that both skills were motions where there were seprate upper and lower body actions that synched. He was right, but later abandoned this path.

I was the one who brought the "box" concept to the site from Dusty Baker (although many had used box before, this is where it came from in this case).

I also introduced the golf/double pendulum/ironbyron info to setpro via a batspeed.com post which nyman read and then he emulated ironbyron in his creation and [mis] interpretation of a nice series of simulations called ironnymans.

The purpose in my mind at the time was to use ithe "box" as a cue to describe ARM ACTION, because 'arm action is king' in throwing and is also the main thing to pay attention to/focus on IF you believe that the overhand throw and mlb swing are similar.


In addition to focussing on similarity between throwing and swinging and arm action, Nyman at the time was also very focussed on scap action
Unfortunately, he took a wrong turn when he misinterpreted the box cue to encourage locking the arm to the front shoulder for rotation/connection.

This is NOT how the scaps/shoulders work in the mlb swing. So this took him down the long painful non-mlb "pcr" road.

If you teach using the shoulders the WRONG way as your major point of emphasis, you will prevent the MLB pattern.

Wrong connecion. wrong rotation. wrong posture,etc

No-teach or teaching shoulder TILT NOT TURN in sequence IS compatible with MLB on the other hand.

Now, when discussing the "box" concept, the main relation to arm action in the mlb swing is to encourage maintaining the angle in the front elbow for a period of time at/after "initiation".

prior to this, top hand/back arm pull sets the swing radius, including the angle in the front elbow The the front arm internally rotates in the lead shoulder socket. then the front arm at "go" or "initiation can further adjust up/down off the chest ("weathervance") as the shoulders tilt and create resistance to turning with the hips, etc.

this is an entirely different way of swinging than the nyman/pcr way.

In mlb, the hands turn the bat first. shoulders tilt slaved to hands. lower body lines up responding to resistance.
here is a nice description from Slapper regarding Mike Schmidt's advice for kids:

"It is very important to know that the hands and wrists [tom's note- NOT the arms or shoulders] start the bat forward from the launching position. You may have the urge to pull the bat forward with your shoulders by opening up the front side of your body—but don't do it. Use the hands and wrists first. The hands begin twisting the bat from the launching position. Let me say this again because it is very important. The hands are what start the bat forward from the launching position. The bat is not pulled forward by the momentum
of the stride, or pulled forward with extended arms. The bat is twisted forward into the swing by the strength of the hands and wrists. In other words, the hands start the bat."

 

[Slapper23]

Magic, I agree 100% with you. What Schmidt said in the passage quoted at B-F is what I believe happens, that is, the hands and arms are active in the swing and not dead as in the front shoulder/lead arm rotate and pull.

Mike

 

[Mark H]

When your top hand is not there to throw the barrel, and when energy development is solely the result of the lead arm's pull or the 'rotational knob pull', it is next to impossible to generate enough batspeed to hit quality pitching. And, you won't be quick enough either.

On the contrary. You will be quicker. It's been said momentum is the least understood force in athletics but there's an easy visual here. Think of a flail mower or a weed eater. There is tremendous force created by the rotation which causes the flail or the line to quickly fly out away from the rotating hub. Learning to connect rotation to the bat in such a manner as to create this whip is a big deal. Is there some bathead speed added with a top hand push as whip begins? Maybe. That's late enough in the swing that teaching that won't likely cause a problem so I have no heartburn with that. The early push a la Mankin's top hand torque is nonsense IMO.

 

[tom.guerry]

torque early/at inititation is the only thing that greatly quickens the swing in the ironnymans.

in the "reality" of the mlb swing the top hand throw starts even earlier than in the NYman model, and it isn't just a reaction to torso rotating, in fact it resists rotation to create and control the last bit of torso coil/load/cusp and subsequent reversal/unloading

 

[Mark H]

Nope to all that except the swing radius is in the hands late in the swing. That's flail to whip. Standard stuff. This early torque between the hand stuff is ten year old Mankin news that was long ago discredited though he was right about some important things.

 

[RayR]

You either won't or don't have the ability to interpret what's going on.

To say Hamilton's hand axis is late in the swing borders on voodoo.

I wouldn't mind seeing a video breakdown of what you see. Mark H at least gives us his analysis with video.

 

[Mark H]

Post a clip of any hitter. I'll give you an accurate analysis.

Point of order. Wouldn't that be a matter of opinion?

Man up now. This is Richard isn't it?

 

[BoardMember]

Point of order. Wouldn't that be a matter of opinion?

Man up now. This is Richard isn't it?

Yes Mark, it is...........

As a matter of fact, it's the new Richard........It's the "throw it around the pivot point" Richard. The handle torque Richard had to retire for obvious reasons...........

Only, as is always the case, the tiger can't hide his stripes forever.

"Barrel Slide" and "Slop" are terms coined by Rich. He's used it many times here so far.

Why do you think Tom posts right after Rich in every thread........

"What is PCR and PCRW?"........"Well, I don't know about the Box but"......."I thought I read in an exchange you had with Slopper(?)"

BWAAAAAA_HAHAHAHAHA........

What a crack up Rich.........