Example of 12U coach pitch calling--please, don't be this guy.

[CanOfCorn]

I'm sometimes confused by the mixed messages received here. On one hand we have everyone saying that 12u is all about development. Wins and losses don't matter. Pitchers need circle time in order to develop. Then we get a thread like this where it seems that everyone is advocating for the pitcher to just throw fastball after fastball in order to get the hitter out. Help me understand how throwing fastball after fastball in order to "just get the batter out and move on" and never throwing an off speed or breaking pitch is helpful towards the development of a pitcher.

What is missing is that at younger ages with mechanics and muscle memory still not there, kids have enough deviation on each pitch in terms of speed and location not to need anything else. You start by just working in and out with one pitch. Master the one pitch and add a pitch, master new pitch, repeat. To your point, I think @slugger was talking pitching, which is delivering a specific pitch to a location to match the situation and not just throwing for the hell of it. You learn to use the tools (your pitches) and then apply to a practical situation (getting outs) so two different thoughts.

As a 12U second year DD had fastball, drop-curve and change (quality in that order) but the first two were fairly accurate for the age. So 6 signs for the 3 pitches with location (in-out, never up, she wasn’t fast enough).

A weak #8 batter and DD pitching, just throw fastballs over but a better hitter and say 0-2 after the opposing coaches yell to protect the plate, drop-curve away because the batter is swinging and I don’t care if DD is a foot outside, shouldn’t be able to hit it anyway. She and the catcher were learning to apply the tools to different batters in the order.

For the record, that coach called call back-to-back change-ups and unless it is a special pitch you never do that, so not at 12U. Defeats the purpose of that pitch.

CoC


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[_MIA_]

That's a job for one of the other 7 assistance coaches in the dugout to handle.

Hmm..how about the guy sitting in LF? I trust him more

 

[FP26]

This is surprising since I think we are of similar ages. It didn't happen once in all the years I played baseball, including college. Catchers/pitchers always called the game even in LL. After I stopped playing I didn't follow much baseball/softball other than MLB where catchers/pitchers call the game so it was a big surprise to me
when I started tp watch college baseball/softball around the time when my kids were born to see that it was the norm for both sports. Not sure if it has always been that way in softball ( I didn't play close enough attention to my sister's softball games growing up) or when it changed for baseball.

I'm 51. Our little league coach called pitches for our team, but I'm not sure if it was common with other teams. I really didn't pay much attention to be honest. But I remember him calling pitches for me during my one and only pitching performance. I finished my pitching career undefeated (1-0) We needed a starter for one game, and the coach liked my arm. I know he called for our regular pitchers as well.

 

[_MIA_]

I'm 51.

Well I just turned 45 so close enough...

 

[Fury_Mike]

Calling pitches and signaling them in is a part of their development. With that said, at the younger ages, it is typically limited to fastball, change and location. I personally won’t teach movement pitches until they have mastered 80% success rates on those. I also won’t start teaching movement pitches that require articulation until they are 13 ish (based on growth plate development and other injury prevention concerns). I do have a few 12U pitchers that create movement with grip and pressure point changes.

 

[sluggers]

Hmm..how about the guy sitting in LF? I trust him more

My guess is that the 3B coach and the pitch-calling-coach are identical twins.

 

[sluggers]

Calling pitches and signaling them in is a part of their development.

Why? Exactly what are you trying to develop?

If a coach calls pitches for the kid starting at 12U all the way through college, when is the kid supposed to learn how to call pitches?

 

[uncdrew]

Hmm..how about the guy sitting in LF? I trust him more

"Hey #7, move ten steps to your left."

 

[Rick M]

I've been that dad on a bucket (see my icon), signaling pitches during a 12U game. A couple of points to consider, then go ahead and pillory me:

1. Learning the rhythm of getting your sign, taking the rubber, and throwing your pitch is absolutely part of a pitcher's development. That extends to controlling the tempo of an at bat. Even if what you're calling is nonsense, finding that cadence and comfort zone in the circle is valuable.

2. Pitchers can work on their repertoire in practice all they want, but throwing to your catcher, with a live batter standing in and an umpire calling balls and strikes is completely different. Developing pitchers need the physical feedback of seeing where their pitches go. That means forcing them to throw a new pitch to a batter. When DD was just learning her CU, she would glare at me when I called it. But the only way to master a pitch is to throw it, and sometimes they need a little push.

3. The catchers are learning too, and at 12U they want no part of calling the game on their own. They have enough to worry about with runners on and dropped third strikes. If you take the time to talk to them about effective velocity, and then demonstrate through pitch calling, hopefully they learn something. DD's middle school coach left pitch calling to the catcher. Guess what happened? She was so used to kids who couldn't hit their spots that she set up dead red on every pitch. DD got raked in her first school game and then I told her to move it around, regardless of the fact that the catcher was belt-high center with her target. If someone was calling the pitches, that wouldn't have happened.

4. As others have said, pitch calling from the dugout is standard as players progress, why not start right away? If a kid has trouble throwing strikes, by all means, just tell them to throw a strike. But for those girls who are developing the ability to move the ball around and hit spots, why not ask them to do just that?

Anyway, my bucket days are done so I can no longer harm the future pitchers of the game by calling pitches for them

 

[uncdrew]

Why? Exactly what are you trying to develop?

If a coach calls pitches for the kid starting at 12U all the way through college, when is the kid supposed to learn how to call pitches?

It's a fair question.

I do talk to my DD a lot about what pitches to throw in certain situations. And why. And expected results.

You never know when the pitch calling coach gets distracted by the hot mom and the pitcher and catcher need to go it alone.

That said, we still signal in the pitches and I like that.