Pitch Calling - High or Low?

[uncdrew]

I find it fascinating that a coach would differentiate something as small as the difference between the river and off the plate, in 12U for Christ sakes, but not care about high or low. That's crazy to me. A college pitcher is going have a hard time being precise enough to throw the river vs off the plate much less a 12u pitcher!!! Lol.......... Who is this crazy coach?

We do have Jana Johns (OU player) coming on as an Assistant Coach in the Fall. I'll certainly ask her this question, though perhaps pitching isn't her forte.

It's pretty common. Perhaps I described it incorrectly. 1= off the plate inside, 2= inside corner, 3= middle, 4= outside corner, 5= off the plate outside.

I like saying "River". I probably used it wrong. We have a horse named River, so I like using the term.

You may not believe it, but our 12U pitchers are very good. Ranked high on the Extra Innings lists, for what it's worth. They hit their spots well, and are certainly worthy of striving for hitting precise spots.

 

[uncdrew]

Considering up/down is much more important than in/middle/out, that's incredibly bizarre, and it tells me the coach either doesn't trust her (or any of the pitchers, if he does the same thing for everyone) to have the ability to locate up/down properly, or the coach doesn't have a clue.

Changing eye level/height is much more disruptive to a hitter than throwing a pitch the same height, but a few inches to the left or right.

You do make me realize I should just go ask the coach. I feel bad that he's taking a hit from y'all due to my poor explanation and my ignorance of how he and the pitchers communicate. I don't know what he does with the other pitchers. Heck, I barely know what he does with my DD. I just know it's very effective.

We've won National Championships*, so we're a pretty decent team with a pretty good coach. And perhaps our girls just know when to pitch high/low. I mean does anyone pitch a low riseball or a high dropball much? And our change-ups are not pitched high either.

Perhaps I'm over-thinking it, and I wasn't very clear in my question perhaps.

 

[uncdrew]

Didn’t like this but one coach curve out, screw in, rise up, drop down, and FB for a strike.

I think the individual pitcher has a lot to do with up and down. My DD lives down and gives eye candy up and off the plate to keep them honest.

Watched a 14 year old that’s wild around the zone but 63 is tuff up. I don’t think she throws enough strikes to call pitches up a lot.

I think you're on to something here. And perhaps the coach has different understanding and communications with the other pitchers on the team. I'm not privy to that.

I'm getting my information from a 12 year old. You know how they are. "Oh yeah, he did tell me once that..."

 

[uncdrew]

However, I'm still eager to hear more answers on how this (the high vs. low) is communicated on y'all's teams. Do you know? I can understand how if your daughter isn't a P you might not know or never needed or wanted to know.

 

[CoachJD]

We've won National Championships*, so we're a pretty decent team with a pretty good coach. And perhaps our girls just know when to pitch high/low. I mean does anyone pitch a low riseball or a high dropball much? And our change-ups are not pitched high either.

Perhaps I'm over-thinking it, and I wasn't very clear in my question perhaps.

The coach could be good at other things and very bad at this one thing. The coach could recruit the best players in the world and all his bad ideas aren't enough to derail the talent on the field. Could be a lot of things.

I also don't think "high pitch = rise ball" and "low pitch = drop ball" works. There are other pitches, and you can throw (most of) them in any location. I don't ever call high changeups, but I have seen so, so many girls absolutely frozen on changeups at the letters. This probably becomes less effective with better players,

I split the zone into quadrants. My pitchers (and catchers) know we want to live on the edges -- not that they hit the spots always, but they know the goal. If I want a pitch especially in/out or high/low, I add a little signal after the numbers. Like if I want a pitch down down, I'll flash the numbers then do a little palm to the ground signal. Usually that means in the dirt or very close to it.

 

[uncdrew]

The coach could be good at other things and very bad at this one thing. The coach could recruit the best players in the world and all his bad ideas aren't enough to derail the talent on the field. Could be a lot of things.

I also don't think "high pitch = rise ball" and "low pitch = drop ball" works. There are other pitches, and you can throw (most of) them in any location. I don't ever call high changeups, but I have seen so, so many girls absolutely frozen on changeups at the letters. This probably becomes less effective with better players,

I split the zone into quadrants. My pitchers (and catchers) know we want to live on the edges -- not that they hit the spots always, but they know the goal. If I want a pitch especially in/out or high/low, I add a little signal after the numbers. Like if I want a pitch down down, I'll flash the numbers then do a little palm to the ground signal. Usually that means in the dirt or very close to it.

When we joined the other two pitcher dads told me their daughter's performance increased and they said it was in part due to better pitch calling. Now perhaps they came from really bad pitch calling to average pitch calling. I really don't know.

Thanks for your answer and insight. We live on the edges too. I like the quadrant system, makes perfect sense. Do you have any concern that the palm to the ground sign can get stolen/seen?

 

[Tango]

When we joined the other two pitcher dads told me their daughter's performance increased and they said it was in part due to better pitch calling. Now perhaps they came from really bad pitch calling to average pitch calling. I really don't know.

Thanks for your answer and insight. We live on the edges too. I like the quadrant system, makes perfect sense. Do you have any concern that the palm to the ground sign can get stolen/seen?

I get to work with two 16U pitchers that are average speed (57) and good movement. They spot the ball really well and we call pitches one ball off and two balls off in and out and they hit it most of the time. Mainly use rise up.

 

[jfitch12]

Is your coach a former baseball guy? Things may have changed in the last 10 years, but historically you would not see a two-sign system in baseball, and rarely saw an “up” sign (which usually was a thumb or sometimes a high glove pump in the instances where it would be used). Pitchers typically just decided when to work up on their own, and normally that was only a fastball up and in.

At 12u, the old baseball approach might work, but once a pitcher has a legit rise ball, I can see why a two-sign quadrant approach would be easier, so as to throw the low and high rise. But besides the rise (or a “fastball” if a pitcher has no rise), I am not sure there is a softball pitch that you would normally ever go “up” with—at least not regularly enough to have a separate sign.


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[El Oso]

It's pretty common.

What is pretty common? For a coach to have 5 different calls for East/West locations and Zero calls for North/South? Ummmmm, I will need some convincing of that.

 

[El Oso]

However, I'm still eager to hear more answers on how this (the high vs. low) is communicated on y'all's teams. Do you know? I can understand how if your daughter isn't a P you might not know or never needed or wanted to know.

4 Quadrants numbered 1, 2 ,3 ,4 --- how ever you like to arrange them.

For instance 1= low inside, 2 = low outside, 3 = high inside, 4 = high outside. Seems to work for D1 pitchers in 18u Gold in the power pools but coaches should feel free to complicate things more for the 12u pitchers just so they can feel like they are more valuable than they are! lol............