discussion on college D1 illegal pitches

[Jeff_H]

I DVR'd the games and the pitches just weren't that egregious. As she went into her motion you could clearly see the front of the foot dip below ground level. The IP whiner's are the most self righteous, at some point you just need to shut up and hit the %@#* ball. I'm a hit the crap out of the ball guy so just bring your best and lets go.

A few years back I watched a game where the coaches and all of the parents in the stands were hollering every other pitch was illegal. A few weeks later one of the dads posted on a local board his daughters "rolled" stealth was for sale as she had out grown it and her new one was off getting broke in. Really?

 

[Glipski]

I DVR'd the games and the pitches just weren't that egregious. As she went into her motion you could clearly see the front of the foot dip below ground level. The IP whiner's are the most self righteous, at some point you just need to shut up and hit the %@#* ball. I'm a hit the crap out of the ball guy so just bring your best and lets go.

A few years back I watched a game where the coaches and all of the parents in the stands were hollering every other pitch was illegal. A few weeks later one of the dads posted on a local board his daughters "rolled" stealth was for sale as she had out grown it and her new one was off getting broke in. Really?

Was the pitcher being called for leaping? There are a few other things that qualify as illegal pitches in case you didn't know.
As far as whining goes, how about this: Just allow everything...move the pitcher up to 25' from the plate, allow rolled, nitrogen charged bats, super charged balls, even eliminate age restrictions. Let 18 year olds and 6 year olds play on the same team. We could have 10U teams with 23 year old pitchers, wouldn't that be sweet? Just let 'em hit that ball. We don't need no stinking rules!

As it stands, the rules are there for a reason. If you don't like the rules, get them changed. As far as I'm concerned, they're there and I reinforce using the rules as written to my pitcher. She gets called for IP for not presenting the ball, having a long stride (she's 11 and 5'-6") and other stupid stuff that's NOT in the rule books, yet pitchers hopping 12" off the ground don't get called for IPs. You're "just weren't that egregious" statement is hilarious. A little bit illegal is just like a little bit pregnant ain't it?

 

[Amy in AZ.]

I see girls called for not presenting the ball, so many times, that I just have them do it, now.

 

[WinThemAll]

Ncaa memo on illegal pitches

There has been quite a stir in NCAA Softball this season about illegal pitches.

I really believe this is beginning to trickle down into all levels of play.


From Spy Softball

NCAA MEMO ON ILLEGAL PITCHES

The NCAA Rules Committee issued the following advisory to coaches et al on March 29:

March 29, 2010

TO: 2010 NCAA Divisions I Head Softball Coaches, Directors of Athletics, and Senior Woman Administrators of NCAA institutions that sponsor Division I Softball.

Conference Commissioners, Senior Woman Administrators, and Umpire Coordinators.

FROM: Dee Abrahamson

NCAA Softball Secretary Rules Editor.

Kathy Strahm

National Coordinator, Softball Umpire Improvement Program.

SUBJECT: Information Regarding Pitching Rules.

We want to clarify recent concerns in the softball community surrounding the interpretation of illegal pitches. During the 2010 softball season, some have seen a rise in the number of illegal pitches called by collegiate umpires and inquired about rule changes and or application of the rule. The only change to the pitching rule is Rule 10.2.1.1, pitcher’s foot position to take the signal.

In response to concerns following the 2009 Women’s College World Series and responses to a National Fastpitch Coaches Association (NFCA) survey regarding the inconsistent and lack of enforcement of the pitching rule, the Softball Umpire Improvement Program (SUIP) placed a priority on the consistent enforcement of all parts of the pitching rules (Rules 10.2-10.6). The intent was to raise the level of integrity, fairness, accuracy and consistency by improving umpire education in order to enforce the rules established for the game without excuses or misunderstandings.

At the same time the SUIP set their priorities, the NCAA Softball Rules Committee identified points of emphasis that will be the focus during the two-year rules cycle. For the 2010 and 2011 cycle, the NCAA Softball Rules Committee identified 1) arguing balls and strikes; 2) pitcher’s lane; 3) flow of the game; and 4) sportsmanship as the four points of emphasis. (Explanations of these points of emphasis can be found on pages 6 and 7 of the 2010 and 2011NCAA MEMORANDUM March 29, 2010 Page No. 2 _________

NCAA Softball Rules Book). Neither the SUIP nor NCAA Softball Rules Committee anticipated their respective actions would result in the unintended consequence of conflict between improved consistency in enforcing the pitching rules and improving the flow of the game.

Therefore, in an effort to maintain this point of emphasis and diminish the unintended consequences, it has been determined that in applying the pitching rules (Rules 10.2-10.6), pitchers should be given the benefit of the doubt when executing a legal pitch.

The expectation is that coaches will continue to coach pitchers in a manner that is in compliance with the pitching rules and umpires will call illegal pitches in the spirit of fair and equitable competition but also in pursuit of maintaining the flow of the game. Specifically, umpires are asked to take the approach that a pitch is legal until the pitcher proves otherwise by engaging in any movement not in compliance with the pitching rules. Again, umpires need to enforce the pitching rules and yet, give pitchers the benefit of the doubt if there is any question of legality.

Finally, in an effort to provide the same information to coaches and umpires, the illegal pitches video shared with subscribing umpires via the SUIP Central Hub will be made available to coaches and non-subscribing umpires in front of the pay wall on the SUIP Central Hub. It will also be available via link on the NCAA softball website and NFCA website. Coaches and umpires are encouraged to view the video to clarify understanding of the specifics of an illegal pitch.

Thank you for your cooperation and assistance in disseminating this information to all interested parties and good luck in the remainder of your season. We look forward to seeing you in Oklahoma City.

KS:and

cc: NCAA Division I Softball Committee

(Rayburn Hesse) Ed Note:

For those who haven’t followed this issue, there was an outbreak of illegal pitch calls at the Cathedral City tournament in Palm Springs, which literally reached epidemic proportions at the Judy Garman Classic in Fullerton two weeks later. There was also a flurry of such calls in various individual games; SPY heard many such complaints from SEC and other coaches.

At the Garman, there were 42 illegal pitch calls which affected the course of the game, ie, calls which advanced a runner, sometimes to score – as opposed to calls during an at-bat. There were 33 calls against one pitcher in a single game. While a member of the national umpire observation team came to the press box at Fullerton, stoutly declaring that umpires were just doing their job and were not affecting play, during his stay in the box there were several such calls which in fact did affect play. The uproar over the intensity/frequency of the calls led to three coaches, all recognized among the best in the business, being ejected. SPY agreed with Deb Hartwig, a tournament official, that umpires should focus on the spirit of the NCAA rule, ie, does the pitcher’s motion give her an advantage in violation of the rule, does she step forward, etc.

Thankfully, NCAA has heard the protests. The memo should dampen down the frequency of such calls. Note that some umpires at Garman also complained that they felt pressure from NCAA to apply the rule more vigorously, like they did the obstruction/interference rule a few seasons ago.

 

[Jeff_H]

Was the pitcher being called for leaping? There are a few other things that qualify as illegal pitches in case you didn't know.
As far as whining goes, how about this: Just allow everything...move the pitcher up to 25' from the plate, allow rolled, nitrogen charged bats, super charged balls, even eliminate age restrictions. Let 18 year olds and 6 year olds play on the same team. We could have 10U teams with 23 year old pitchers, wouldn't that be sweet? Just let 'em hit that ball. We don't need no stinking rules!

As it stands, the rules are there for a reason. If you don't like the rules, get them changed. As far as I'm concerned, they're there and I reinforce using the rules as written to my pitcher. She gets called for IP for not presenting the ball, having a long stride (she's 11 and 5'-6") and other stupid stuff that's NOT in the rule books, yet pitchers hopping 12" off the ground don't get called for IPs. You're "just weren't that egregious" statement is hilarious. A little bit illegal is just like a little bit pregnant ain't it?

Like I said self righteous.

The only thing that was visible was her pivot foot was off the ground 4-6", she was obviously having to push out of a hole. The calls were coming from the 3rd base umpire, and not one IP was called by the 1st base umpire, 3 man crew.

Come back in 7-8 years and see if you still have the same opinions. After going through 3 DD's IP's just aren't that big of deal to me anymore, at some point you just have to hit the ball.

As far as whining goes, how about this: Just allow everything...move the pitcher up to 25' from the plate, allow rolled, nitrogen charged bats, super charged balls, even eliminate age restrictions. Let 18 year olds and 6 year olds play on the same team. We could have 10U teams with 23 year old pitchers, wouldn't that be sweet? Just let 'em hit that ball. We don't need no stinking rules!

You are not really that far off.

I was still playing quite a bit of slow pitch when Demarini introduced the doublewall. All of the sudden gap/placement hitters were going yard and all that was changed was the bat. 8-10 years ago HR's were very uncommon in fastpitch, now we have 12 yr olds hitting balls out of the park, and the pitching rules have remained the same, not only that we have now given hitters 3 more ft to track the ball.

Like I said, I'm a hit the #@*$ out of the ball, I have spent many hours working on hitting. My youngest daughter has hit 42 balls out of the park before she turned 18. I watched her hit a ball last year that was 30-40 ft off of the ground when it cleared the fence. It cleared 4 rows of cars, hit once, bounced over another double row and bounced twice and hit the fence to the soccer field on the other side of the parking lot. The pitcher was a leaper, no big deal.

 

[Bishop]

Like I said self righteous.

The only thing that was visible was her pivot foot was off the ground 4-6", she was obviously having to push out of a hole. The calls were coming from the 3rd base umpire, and not one IP was called by the 1st base umpire, 3 man crew.

Come back in 7-8 years and see if you still have the same opinions. After going through 3 DD's IP's just aren't that big of deal to me anymore, at some point you just have to hit the ball.

As far as whining goes, how about this: Just allow everything...move the pitcher up to 25' from the plate, allow rolled, nitrogen charged bats, super charged balls, even eliminate age restrictions. Let 18 year olds and 6 year olds play on the same team. We could have 10U teams with 23 year old pitchers, wouldn't that be sweet? Just let 'em hit that ball. We don't need no stinking rules!

You are not really that far off.

I was still playing quite a bit of slow pitch when Demarini introduced the doublewall. All of the sudden gap/placement hitters were going yard and all that was changed was the bat. 8-10 years ago HR's were very uncommon in fastpitch, now we have 12 yr olds hitting balls out of the park, and the pitching rules have remained the same, not only that we have now given hitters 3 more ft to track the ball.

Like I said, I'm a hit the #@*$ out of the ball, I have spent many hours working on hitting. My youngest daughter has hit 42 balls out of the park before she turned 18. I watched her hit a ball last year that was 30-40 ft off of the ground when it cleared the fence. It cleared 4 rows of cars, hit once, bounced over another double row and bounced twice and hit the fence to the soccer field on the other side of the parking lot. The pitcher was a leaper, no big deal.

You are pretty good at self righteous yourself. I guess all you have to do is get the pitching rules changed from all the alphabet soup little league organizations to the NCAA an you won't have to listen to us anymore. Good luck with that.

 

[rowdy]

The stride is only too long if the back foot lifts off the ground on the jump or they replant to get a little more distance. With two umpires you won't get too many illegal pitches called or runners leaving early.

 

[Glipski]

Like I said self righteous.

The only thing that was visible was her pivot foot was off the ground 4-6", she was obviously having to push out of a hole. The calls were coming from the 3rd base umpire, and not one IP was called by the 1st base umpire, 3 man crew.

Wow, that's a great reason for allowing illegal pitching, right? I don't suppose the pitchers ever dig out a hole to hide the fact they're maybe losing contact to gain a bit of advantage due to zero drag on their pivot foot, do they? Also, just me or wouldn't the 3rd base ump have the good eyeball on the pitchers feet? I mean the guy at first is watching that action and the one behind the plate is checking out framing and position of the pitch, so who's left to call them easily? Any could, but does it make the call wrong because the 3rd base guy called it? Nope.

Not self righteous at all. My butt ain't on the mound, so how I would be self righteous?

I've also been around this game for a few years. I still actually OWN one of the Demarini doublewalls you're talking about. Right now, it's standing in a corner in my shop gathering cobwebs. I also remember when it got outlawed for league play. Yep, ILLEGAL...know what? the umps wouldn't let us use it because the rules said so. The fastpitch rulesstate that one foot must maintain contact with the ground when pitching. Why isn't that one enforced?Both are ASA rules (As with most alphabet orgs now)

And just exactly does it have to do with hitting the ball? You're argument makes no sense. You're talking about hitting when the OP is discussing illegal pitching. I mean, really, her foot was ONLY 4-6" off the ground? You were being facetious, right? Surely you meant that as a joke.

Also, very impressive that you're DD jacked out so many homers. I would be amazed if my DD could accomplish just a small percentage of that. By the way, how many different pitches did she have control of during that time?

 

[Jeff_H]

Wow, that's a great reason for allowing illegal pitching, right? I don't suppose the pitchers ever dig out a hole to hide the fact they're maybe losing contact to gain a bit of advantage due to zero drag on their pivot foot, do they? Also, just me or wouldn't the 3rd base ump have the good eyeball on the pitchers feet? I mean the guy at first is watching that action and the one behind the plate is checking out framing and position of the pitch, so who's left to call them easily? Any could, but does it make the call wrong because the 3rd base guy called it? Nope.

Not self righteous at all. My butt ain't on the mound, so how I would be self righteous?

I've also been around this game for a few years. I still actually OWN one of the Demarini doublewalls you're talking about. Right now, it's standing in a corner in my shop gathering cobwebs. I also remember when it got outlawed for league play. Yep, ILLEGAL...know what? the umps wouldn't let us use it because the rules said so. The fastpitch rulesstate that one foot must maintain contact with the ground when pitching. Why isn't that one enforced?Both are ASA rules (As with most alphabet orgs now)

And just exactly does it have to do with hitting the ball? You're argument makes no sense. You're talking about hitting when the OP is discussing illegal pitching. I mean, really, her foot was ONLY 4-6" off the ground? You were being facetious, right? Surely you meant that as a joke.

No joke, maybe wrong semantics. Her toe touched about 4-6" in front of the plate. Lots of pitchers are way more airborne then what was being called. To me the stepping out of the lane is way more of an advantage then a girl leaping.

Also, very impressive that you're DD jacked out so many homers. I would be amazed if my DD could accomplish just a small percentage of that. By the way, how many different pitches did she have control of during that time?

Pitcher is signed to a mid level D1, just the wrong pitch at the wrong time. DD told me they were really working outside the previous at bat and she was expecting them to try coming inside that at bat.

Somewhere on youtube is a video of our state championship game, and her final HS at bat, it resulted in 2 RBI's and tied the game in the top of the 6th. The pitcher was way out of the lane and ran the ball in on her.

Slappers are out of the box, speedsters leave early, and pitchers leap, the previous two are occasionally called out but the pitcher is cruxified. Caitlin Lowe was out of the box consistently, Brittany rogers left early, but I have yet to see a post on the internet calling them cheaters like the pitchers.

 

[Glipski]

Brittany rogers left early

HEY,HEY,HEY!!! Watch out there! Brittany Rogers is a SAINT, buddy! Don't use her name in vain. She played for the greatest university in the entire known universe.

You are correct, but my point is and has been that it's against the rules and should be called as such. The screwed up batting the girls do now should also be called, but that's not what this thread was about. I think the pitches should be called if they're genuinely IP's and in short order there wouldn't be an issue with it anymore. At that point the various Orgs could go to work on the batters for you. Then we'd both be happy.