Diffrent pitches 12u pitchers should know

[MNDad]

I'm not saying this to pick on you or anyone else, but I hear this said all the time, and it makes no sense. I don't know a single player that said, you know I'm just not gonna throw this fastball very hard today. You don't develop speed by throwing 20 more pitches in a given day. You develop speed by learning new (good) techniques, and adding mass. You don't need thousands of reps to get faster.

And aren't you supposed to be throwing with the same motion/speed regardless of grip?

Actually you do. There’s more to it than that, but it takes thousands of reps in the off season to see significant gains every year.

 

[MNDad]

I don't at this juncture post videos of my 12Yo but she's sure struck a lot of kids out this year swinging below her nonexistent riseball (she plays up to 14u). Is it perfect, nope but it most definitely ends up well above where the hitters eyes think it's going. she throws it around 54/55 on a pocket radar.

i believe you. DD was a year older, but her 50 mph rise ball danced all over the place.

 

[MNDad]

It depends on the pitcher. I general, young pitchers learn to throw a ton of pitches and don't develop speed. So there should always be a focus on power and speed development. With all that said a 12U pitcher should have more than 2 pitches in my opinion. Add them one by one once they have a reasonable level of command with each pitch and the ability to mix in with her other pitches. You will hear people to tell you not to add another pitch until she has "mastered" a pitch. If you wait for a 12U pitcher to master a pitch you will never make any progress.

I get what you’re saying and for the most part agree. Can’t speak for everyone, but when I say a kid should master a pitch before going on the the next I’m using “master” pretty loosely. Proficient is probably a better word. “Reasonable level of command” is a perfect way to phrase it.

I agree wholeheartedly about kids learning too many pitches at the expense of speed. When DD was young people probably focused too much on speed. Fast = Good and Slow = Bad. Now it seems reversed with most people downplaying speed to the extreme. You don’t need to be a flamethrower, but an arcing fastball isn’t going to get it done.

 

[radness]

In beginning years in softball
Speed seems affective because its against undeveloped batters.
However
Even in 12u the fastest pitchers throwing 55 to 58 get hit.
Because even in 12u there are more developed batters.
Exposing
Speed alone is nothing.


This conversation of how many pitches is enough?
Then, answering 2...
without actually trying and finding what 2 eventually may be best suited for the individual~
Is silly. Until you find out what the pitcher is capable of.


Comes down to this
Focus more on location'S
And controlling throwing different speeds.
Because~
(sooner than you think)
SPEED without spin or control
IS BATTING PRACTICE

 

[MNDad]

In beginning years in softball
Speed seems affective because its against undeveloped batters.
However
Even in 12u the fastest pitchers throwing 55 to 58 get hit.
Because even in 12u there are more developed batters.
Exposing
Speed alone is nothing.


This conversation of how many pitches is enough?
Then, answering 2...
without actually trying and finding what 2 eventually may be best suited for the individual~
Is silly. Until you find out what the pitcher is capable of.


Comes down to this
Focus more on location'S
And controlling throwing different speeds.
Because~
(sooner than you think)
SPEED without spin or control
IS BATTING PRACTICE

If they’re doing it right while their speed increases so will their spin and control.

Trying different grips and pitches to see what feels good is a great way to choose what pitches to go with. I just think they need to be proficient with what they’ve got before trying to be good with too many new pitches at once. Each pitcher is different, but on average I’d say 12U pitchers are adequate with two pitches and the better ones might have 3-4. DD was behind the curve and only had one at 12u.

 

[uncdrew]

This topic (you only need one pitch), like most things in fastpitch and baseball, is backwards, and frankly foolish if you give it one minute of thought.

Unless you have a blazing fastball much faster than everyone else, you need more than one pitch just to get people out. And most kids can't throw one of those pitches on a given day, so you need at least one more, again just to get people out.

And at different levels, certain grips (like baseball circle changeups before 14U) wont get people out.

I taught my son every grip at age 11, and he practiced throwing every grip every day, all the way through D1. Did he throw 10 grips in a given game? Of course not. Did his curve stop working one day, and his splitter worked? Of course. So on a given day you throw your two best pitches.

Plus, you never know which non-fastball grip will be your specialty unless you try them.

Further, it's valuable to know when to throw each pitch in a game, depending on the count, and the pitch before. It's much easier if you start early.

Except no one is stating that you only need one pitch.

 

[cnardone]

Proficient is probably a better word. “Reasonable level of command” is a perfect way to phrase it.

I like this “Reasonable level of command”. I whole heartedly agree that you can quickly be working on too many pitches to the point that none are very good, or needed for that matter. But I also think that those that say a pitcher has to be able to hit the mitt 70% of the time before going to the next pitch, is a little over the top. I understand that baseball is different, but Randy Johnson was 29 (29!!!!) before he had enough the slightest clue to where the ball was going. Now we want 12 year old to have Gregg Maddux like control?

If that magic 70% mark was used by pitching coaches, we would have all of 3 12U pitcher in the nation that are allowed to start learning a change.

 

[schwabach]

If a pitch with riseball spins drops less slowly than a pitch of the same velocity with no spin, then, depending on your frame of reference, you could say that the ball is rising (right Pattar). Plus, the spin on the ball plays tricks on the eye. That being said, why wouldn't a riseball work at any age as long as you impart the right spin and have reasonable velocity? Also, I believe it has been established that no riseballs actually rise.

 

[_MIA_]

If a pitch with riseball spins drops less slowly than a pitch of the same velocity with no spin, then, depending on your frame of reference, you could say that the ball is rising (right Pattar). Plus, the spin on the ball plays tricks on the eye. That being said, why wouldn't a riseball work at any age as long as you impart the right spin and have reasonable velocity? Also, I believe it has been established that no riseballs actually rise.

Everything I have read says that women (and maybe men too) do not throw hard enough, with enough spin, to allow the ball to go above the plane the ball would travel without gravity, so in that sense they do not "rise". Riseballs work because they drop (from that plane I mentioned) less than fastballs and look enough like fastballs to mess with the brain's ability to extrapolate from previous data. On that note, do they have riseball machines for softball like they do for sliders,curves etc in baseball?

 

[Tango]

We have a 15 year old with perfect spin on her rise. It is maybe 50 on her best pitch and only throws 53/55 with her FB. She can throw the rise knee high and it just stays there. The batter looks like she is chopping wood and could swing 3x before it gets to home plate. Everyone yelling great change up